Marijuana laws- O/T

[glchen]

I didn't read through all of the posts and I don't want to get into a long discussion on this, but I personally believe that marijuana is worse than alcohol. The reason that people think that alcohol is worse is because it's legal. If you completely legalize pot, can you imagine what could happen if you have one of those mega corps the size of the beer companies commercializing this? If every 15 minutes on TV, you saw a commercial trying to convince you to buy this brand of pot or this other brand?

The other comparison is to cigarettes. I think it'd only be a matter of time before legalized pot goes down the road of smoking where the government puts all of these warning labels on cigarette packs. It'd be the same thing w/ pot.

Finally, I think marijuana would be the first step for many users to the road of harder drugs like cocaine. Pretty soon, you would want a bigger hit.

I'm fine w/ medical use for those who need it for pain relief. However, recreationally, I don't think so.

Edited to add: Alcohol is in another realm because there are thousands of years of Western and Asian history of drinking alcohol. I wouldn't be surprised if cavemen drank regularly. However, the history of different cultures smoking pot is minuscule.

[vintagetoppsguy]

I don't think anybody is going to say anything that changes someone's opinion one way or the other. You're either for it or against it. Perhaps Leon could post a poll and the Net54 community could have our own vote

[Leon]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I don't think anybody is going to say anything that changes someone's opinion one way or the other. You're either for it or against it. Perhaps Leon could post a poll and the Net54 community could have our own vote

Good suggestion.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I don't think anybody is going to say anything that changes someone's opinion one way or the other. You're either for it or against it. Perhaps Leon could post a poll and the Net54 community could have our own vote

That's not true - internet bullying, sarcasm and guilt trips are sometimes quite effective on the internet. Since joining this forum I've become a Democrat, become a huge fan of TPG's, and am even considering collecting black and white cards from the 1920's....all because of you guys.

[cubsfan-budman]

Originally Posted by glchen

I didn't read through all of the posts and I don't want to get into a long discussion on this, but I personally believe that marijuana is worse than alcohol. The reason that people think that alcohol is worse is because it's legal. If you completely legalize pot, can you imagine what could happen if you have one of those mega corps the size of the beer companies commercializing this? If every 15 minutes on TV, you saw a commercial trying to convince you to buy this brand of pot or this other brand?

The other comparison is to cigarettes. I think it'd only be a matter of time before legalized pot goes down the road of smoking where the government puts all of these warning labels on cigarette packs. It'd be the same thing w/ pot.

Finally, I think marijuana would be the first step for many users to the road of harder drugs like cocaine. Pretty soon, you would want a bigger hit.

I'm fine w/ medical use for those who need it for pain relief. However, recreationally, I don't think so.

Edited to add: Alcohol is in another realm because there are thousands of years of Western and Asian history of drinking alcohol. I wouldn't be surprised if cavemen drank regularly. However, the history of different cultures smoking pot is minuscule.

I don't know you or anything about your experiences, but this sounds like the words of someone who's never tried marijuana. Marijuana and cocaine are completely different. Someone who was interested in the "high" that marijuana gives them wouldn't look to cocaine for something similar. That's like saying that drinking coffee makes you want to try cocaine. They're far more alike.

From *MY* experience, the whole "gateway drug" notion is a sham...something that came with the whole "Reefer Madness" culture, which is based on misinformation about pot.

(Full disclosure, I do not smoke pot and haven't for nearly 10 years)

[glchen]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

I don't know you or anything about your experiences, but this sounds like the words of someone who's never tried marijuana. Marijuana and cocaine are completely different. Someone who was interested in the "high" that marijuana gives them wouldn't look to cocaine for something similar. That's like saying that drinking coffee makes you want to try cocaine. They're far more alike.

From *MY* experience, the whole "gateway drug" notion is a sham...something that came with the whole "Reefer Madness" culture, which is based on misinformation about pot.

(Full disclosure, I do not smoke pot and haven't for nearly 10 years)

I will admit that I have never tried marijuana and I have also never tried smoking. I do drink with friends, however. I also drink coffee every now and then.

Please educate me. Are you saying that marijuana is basically the same as caffeine? So right now, people can drink coffee and drive at the same time. So are you saying that people should be allowed to drive and smoke pot at the same time? It's not that much different? Also, I believe pregnant women are allowed to drink coffee on a limited basis. So you would say, they can also smoke pot every now and then? No problems?

[cubsfan-budman]

Originally Posted by glchen

I will admit that I have never tried marijuana and I have also never tried smoking. I do drink with friends, however. I also drink coffee every now and then.

Please educate me. Are you saying that marijuana is basically the same as caffeine? So right now, people can drink coffee and drive at the same time. So are you saying that people should be allowed to drive and smoke pot at the same time? It's not that much different? Also, I believe pregnant women are allowed to drink coffee on a limited basis. So you would say, they can also smoke pot every now and then? No problems?

I am not trying to suggest the caffeine and pot are the same thing. I am saying that pot is an unlikely gateway to something "harder" like cocaine, because they have nothing in common. Caffeine and cocaine have much more in common, based solely on the effects that they cause.

Anyhow, another thing worth dispelling is this crazy idea of a "dealer" as some Scarface kingpin. When I smoked, I bought from my buddy. He was pacifist and Pink Floyd aficionado. He bought from a grower who was an old "head"...basically a left over hippie...that was the "end of the line" so to speak.

Everyone that *I* know (I live in Central TX, not Downtown Detroit), bought weed in the same way.

So, there's that.

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

From *MY* experience, the whole "gateway drug" notion is a sham...something that came with the whole "Reefer Madness" culture, which is based on misinformation about pot.

(Full disclosure, I do not smoke pot and haven't for nearly 10 years)

I haven't smoked in nearly 10 myself. I can agree with you about the origins of the "gateway" notion. However, I believe it's also a notion that has become somewhat credible nowadays. It lies simply in the potential upsale depending on the dealer.. Suck 'em in with weed, and then turn 'em on to something more profitable. I will concede that this is definitely NOT the case with all dealers though. Upon legalization, I believe that this upsale factor goes away..

[teetwoohsix]

I posted this link earlier in this thread, and I beg all of you people who are against legalizing it to go to this site and educate yourselves to the failed war on drugs: http://www.leap.cc/

Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

Watch the 20 minute video of Jack Cole, giving you the STATISTICS. It's a real eye opener, and it gives you the bigger picture.

Sincerely, Clayton

[Leon]

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

I posted this link earlier in this thread, and I beg all of you people who are against legalizing it to go to this site and educate yourselves to the failed war on drugs: http://www.leap.cc/

Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

Watch the 20 minute video of Jack Cole, giving you the STATISTICS. It's a real eye opener, and it gives you the bigger picture.

Sincerely, Clayton

Thanks for posting that link Clayton. For those that are opposed I hope they will watch it and then let us know if they are still opposed. I would be extremely interested. It's a REAL eye opener when 80,000 judges, prosecutors, law enforcement officers and supporters are behind the end of the illegality. It also gives an idea why it really is still illegal, as Joe above said....there is so much money being made off of keeping it illegal that business and profiteers are fighting tooth and nail.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by Leon

Thanks for posting that link Clayton. For those that are opposed I hope they will watch it and then let us know if they are still opposed. I would be extremely interested. It's a REAL eye opener when 80,000 judges, prosecutors, law enforcement officers and supporters are behind the end of the illegality. It also gives an idea why it really is still illegal, as Joe above said....there is so much money being made off of keeping it illegal that business and profiteers are fighting tooth and nail.

I just watched two minutes of a couple of videos including one by Cole. From what I got, these are about legalizing along ALL drugs not just pot. Is that the topic of this thread and does everyone who supports legal pot also support legal coke, heroin and crack?

[packs]

Alcohol killed 2.5 million people last year. Every year tobacco causes 20 percent of all US deaths. I don't see how you can say cigarettes or alcohol aren't any worse than any singular drug. If an adult can be given the choice to drink or smoke or not to drink or smoke, why can't they also be given the choice to do drugs or not do drugs? You're already making that choice every day as it is.

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by glchen

I just watched two minutes of a couple of videos including one by Cole. From what I got, these are about legalizing along ALL drugs not just pot. Is that the topic of this thread and does everyone who supports legal pot also support legal coke, heroin and crack?

Hi Gary-

No, the topic at hand is just a discussion about legalizing marijuana. But, if you listen to the whole Cole video, you will clearly see why the war on drugs has failed (big time) and the statistics alone will shock you. Again, please watch the whole clip when you can. He lays it out way better than I can.

I don't recommend anyone use drugs or alchohol or tobacco- but I 100% feel we, as Americans, should have the freedom to choose what we do with our bodies and minds (they are ours, aren't they? ). As long as the individual isn't hurting someone else in any way, what is the problem? Who am I to say because I don't like something that no one else should have the right to do it? I guess that's my point. There are a lot of things I don't personally like or agree with, but I would never want that alone to remove someone else's right to do it if that's what they wanted to do. I hope that made sense

Liberty and freedom- what does that mean?

The Cole video (the whole thing ) is, well, shocking. I've yet to see any one but you comment on it- any one else watch it?

Sincerely, Clayton

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by Leon

Thanks for posting that link Clayton. For those that are opposed I hope they will watch it and then let us know if they are still opposed. I would be extremely interested. It's a REAL eye opener when 80,000 judges, prosecutors, law enforcement officers and supporters are behind the end of the illegality. It also gives an idea why it really is still illegal, as Joe above said....there is so much money being made off of keeping it illegal that business and profiteers are fighting tooth and nail.

Thanks Leon-

I figured it would wake some people up, considering the source. I think it's easier for people to just assume because drugs are illegal, that there is no real problem. Quite the contrary. I wish everyone would watch the videos and listen to what they are saying- especially those of you with kids.

Keep your heads in the sand, and keep letting the cartels get RICH. Keep wasting billions of dollars fighting something that just keeps growing, like cancer. The more money spent "fighting the war" the stronger the drugs get, and the bigger the loads are, coming across the border. The deaths will continue, and the prisons will keep overflowing. Families get wrecked, homes lost, and the time spent chasing plants is more time taken away from more important things, like solving unsolved homicides, rapes, etc.

Drug abuse is a medical problem, not a crime. Look at the countries that have legalized (Cole's video, again, gives the statistics).

Sincerely, Clayton

[packs]

Originally Posted by glchen

I didn't read through all of the posts and I don't want to get into a long discussion on this, but I personally believe that marijuana is worse than alcohol. The reason that people think that alcohol is worse is because it's legal. If you completely legalize pot, can you imagine what could happen if you have one of those mega corps the size of the beer companies commercializing this? If every 15 minutes on TV, you saw a commercial trying to convince you to buy this brand of pot or this other brand?

Finally, I think marijuana would be the first step for many users to the road of harder drugs like cocaine. Pretty soon, you would want a bigger hit.

Edited to add: Alcohol is in another realm because there are thousands of years of Western and Asian history of drinking alcohol. I wouldn't be surprised if cavemen drank regularly. However, the history of different cultures smoking pot is minuscule.

I have to disagree with all these points. Beer commercials are on TV aren't they? Last year the WHO said alcohol killed approximately 2.5 million people. How can that not be worse?

Marijuana as a gateway drug was invented in the 90s by anti-drug companies, most of which were being subsidized by alcohol and tobacco companies.

Marijuana is a naturally growing plant that has been on this continent for at least 2,000 years and has been used medicinally by native cultures for just as long, if not longer than alcohol.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by packs

I have to disagree with all these points. Beer commercials are on TV aren't they? Last year the WHO said alcohol killed approximately 2.5 million people. How can that not be worse?

Marijuana as a gateway drug was invented in the 90s by anti-drug companies, most of which were being subsidized by alcohol and tobacco companies.

Marijuana is a naturally growing plant that has been on this continent for at least 2,000 years and has been used medicinally by native cultures for just as long, if not longer than alcohol.

I'm not saying alcohol is good for you, just that there is no way you can go back to Prohibition with its history. However I will still disagree with you that pot has the same history. Why let the genie out of the bottle with legalization ?

[packs]

What genie though? How drastically do you think life will change? If you want any drug you can get it. Legalization has nothing to do with availability or use.

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by glchen

I didn't read through all of the posts and I don't want to get into a long discussion on this, but I personally believe that marijuana is worse than alcohol. The reason that people think that alcohol is worse is because it's legal. If you completely legalize pot, can you imagine what could happen if you have one of those mega corps the size of the beer companies commercializing this? If every 15 minutes on TV, you saw a commercial trying to convince you to buy this brand of pot or this other brand?

The other comparison is to cigarettes. I think it'd only be a matter of time before legalized pot goes down the road of smoking where the government puts all of these warning labels on cigarette packs. It'd be the same thing w/ pot.

Finally, I think marijuana would be the first step for many users to the road of harder drugs like cocaine. Pretty soon, you would want a bigger hit.

I'm fine w/ medical use for those who need it for pain relief. However, recreationally, I don't think so.

Edited to add: Alcohol is in another realm because there are thousands of years of Western and Asian history of drinking alcohol. I wouldn't be surprised if cavemen drank regularly. However, the history of different cultures smoking pot is minuscule.

The earliest known inhaled (smoked) cannabis use occured about 3000 years BCE, alcohol is roughly 4000 BCE. In terms of actual time between the two in history, we have been using marijuana for about 5000 years and alcohol for 6000 I believe the difference isn't incredible in terms of history.

[Buythatcard]

As long as the grading companies don't smoke it, I am all for legalizing it.

[jcmtiger]

lots of jobs don't test for drugs when you get hired...

none test for legal drugs, that i know of.


Cubsfan see below


Pre-Employment Drug Testing


The majority of all Fortune 500 companies do employee drug testing. It is estimated that 98 percent of Fortune 200 companies have implemented some form of employee drug testing during their recruitment process. Recruiters estimate that about 60 percent of new hires are required to take a drug test today.

Why Do Pre-Employment Drug Testing?

The US Department of Labor has estimated that drug use in the workplace costs employers up to $100 billion dollars annually in lost work time, accidents, health care costs and workers compensation costs.

Drug use affects your bottom line. Workers who do drugs are more likely to change jobs or skip work. The good news is you can put programs in place to make sure your workplace is drug free. A good drug free program includes testing applicants prior to their higher date and doing random drug testing throughout their tenure with your company.

What are Requirements for Pre-Employment Drug Testing ?

Generally these requirements for pre employment drug screening are followed by employers:
■Employers have a written drug testing policy that requires job applicants to be drug-free.
■Written notice of testing is given before the applicant may be tested. Many drug and alcohol testing laws require that job applicants be notified in advance that they may be tested and under what conditions.
■Written notice is given to the applicant that employment drug screening is required before hiring. This may be done through the employment application form or on a specific form given out at the first interview
■The written notice details the type of drug testing that will be carried out and lists the over-the-counter medications that may produce a positive result
■The same testing program should be implemented for all applicants in a particular category or there could be implications of discrimination

Pre-Employment Drug Testing & Discriminaton

A company with over 15 employees is subject to the Americans with Disabilities Act, a federal law that protects people with disabilities from discrimination. This Act prohibits pre employment medical examinations before a conditional offer of employment has been made but a test to determine if an applicant is illegally using drugs is specifically exempted from the definition of what constitutes a medical examination. However pre employment alcohol testing is considered an medical examination and can only be conducted after the candidate has been extended a conditional offer of employment.

Discrimination can be implied if an employer tests only certain applicants for a position. An employer cannot pick and choose which applicants for the same position will be tested. However within a company employment drug testing may be required for only certain positions. The company would have to be able to justify this in terms of the job requirements and a written drug policy.

[cubsfan-budman]

Originally Posted by jcmtiger

lots of jobs don't test for drugs when you get hired...

none test for legal drugs, that i know of.


Cubsfan see below


Pre-Employment Drug Testing


The majority of all Fortune 500 companies do employee drug testing. It is estimated that 98 percent of Fortune 200 companies have implemented some form of employee drug testing during their recruitment process. Recruiters estimate that about 60 percent of new hires are required to take a drug test today.

Why Do Pre-Employment Drug Testing?

The US Department of Labor has estimated that drug use in the workplace costs employers up to $100 billion dollars annually in lost work time, accidents, health care costs and workers compensation costs.

Drug use affects your bottom line. Workers who do drugs are more likely to change jobs or skip work. The good news is you can put programs in place to make sure your workplace is drug free. A good drug free program includes testing applicants prior to their higher date and doing random drug testing throughout their tenure with your company.

What are Requirements for Pre-Employment Drug Testing ?

Generally these requirements for pre employment drug screening are followed by employers:
■Employers have a written drug testing policy that requires job applicants to be drug-free.
■Written notice of testing is given before the applicant may be tested. Many drug and alcohol testing laws require that job applicants be notified in advance that they may be tested and under what conditions.
■Written notice is given to the applicant that employment drug screening is required before hiring. This may be done through the employment application form or on a specific form given out at the first interview
■The written notice details the type of drug testing that will be carried out and lists the over-the-counter medications that may produce a positive result
■The same testing program should be implemented for all applicants in a particular category or there could be implications of discrimination

Pre-Employment Drug Testing & Discriminaton

A company with over 15 employees is subject to the Americans with Disabilities Act, a federal law that protects people with disabilities from discrimination. This Act prohibits pre employment medical examinations before a conditional offer of employment has been made but a test to determine if an applicant is illegally using drugs is specifically exempted from the definition of what constitutes a medical examination. However pre employment alcohol testing is considered an medical examination and can only be conducted after the candidate has been extended a conditional offer of employment.

Discrimination can be implied if an employer tests only certain applicants for a position. An employer cannot pick and choose which applicants for the same position will be tested. However within a company employment drug testing may be required for only certain positions. The company would have to be able to justify this in terms of the job requirements and a written drug policy.

yeah, they test once and then never do again so that they get an insurance break.

anyhow, if weed was legal, they could continue to drug test. my point is that the companies that do test don't bother to test for caffeine or alcohol or nicotine or any number of other legal drugs. if pot was legal, why would they test for it?

[buymycards]

Maybe we could have a separate section in the BST for marijuana buying and selling.

[Tsaiko]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

As long as the grading companies don't smoke it, I am all for legalizing it.

Unless they start grading marijuana, which someone should surely do.

SGC = Sure Graded Cannabis
PSA = Pure Smokables Authority

Weed would be knocked down a grade or two for not being trimmed.

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by Tsaiko

Unless they start grading marijuana, which someone should surely do.

SGC = Sure Graded Cannabis
PSA = Pure Smokables Authority

Weed would be knocked down a grade or two for not being trimmed.

I actually tried to picture that in action. I think it would be absolutely hilarious. Something along the lines of large chain shops send in their strains to get graded 1-10 and can advertise the grade like a BBB grade.

[packs]

Medical marijuana has done some amazing things for children with behavioral and psychological disorders. Medical marijuana is not just about getting high like most of the nay-sayers seem to think. THC is a chemical, and like any other chemical it can be manipulated. Recent studies have shown that when THC doesn't cross into the blood stream, it has amazingly beneficial effects on behavior. For example, a hyper-active kid can take specially altered medical marijuana pills that will give a sense of calm and not have any psycho-active effects at all. The chemical agents are called CDB's. Medical marijuana with a high CDB count inherently has a low amount of THC.

Medical marijuana has also been incredibly helpful to chemo patients. One of the most debilitating side effects of chemo therapy was nausea. Patients would receive treatment and lose their appetites, which would have a negative impact on their body's ability to heal. Marijuana, as we all know, can cause people to become hungry. Eating can quite literally be a lifesaver in terms of a chemo patients chances at recovery.

I think people should really open their minds and stop buying into decades old government rhetoric. Especially when you have zero personal experiences and when you assume that anyone who uses medical marijuana just wants to get high legally. Its assumptions like these that keep people from getting actual help. I personally have experienced the benefits of medical marijuana free of any of the psycho-active, brain altering or life altering side effects that come along with much of the other prescription medications doctors typically prescribe for my needs.

It really bothers me that short-sighted people think I'm some kind of stoner looking to get high, or that I'm some gateway smoker in training for my future heroin or cocaine addiction.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by packs

Medical marijuana has done some amazing things for children with behavioral and psychological disorders. Medical marijuana is not just about getting high like most of the nay-sayers seem to think.

...

It really bothers me that short-sighted people think I'm some kind of stoner looking to get high, or that I'm some gateway smoker in training for my future heroin or cocaine addiction.

As far as I know, beer has no medical benefits and it's still legal. Yep, people who see me at the end of the night in my local pub, think I'm some sort of ...well, heavy beer-drinker... stumbling home perhaps in what they would think to be an 'inappropriate' level of consciousness. Their judgement of me doesn't bother me at all, unless I cause problems for them because I'm inebriated, in which case some embarrassment on my part might be appropriate.

If I like to smoke pot, and it's legal (and even if it is NOT legal), I don't really care what people think my intent is, any more than I care what their intent is when they make their personal decisions. But let's remember - most people DO smoke pot to get high. If it bothers you that people are bothered by that, then I'm sure other unknown thoughts that people have about you might also be bothering you, which isn't healthy - you need to get over it.