Giants VS Cardinals

[freakhappy]

Don't get me wrong, I know Cain has been consistent but other than the first half of this year, I don't see him being a dominating, great pitcher. He definitely came down the second half to his normal self.

Someone mentioned that he is more than a six inning pitcher and I agree that he has this year. Look at his last four playoff starts...dude can't make it past 6 innings. He's far from elite...

E.T.A: I'd take a dead hooker over Cain anyday...

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by freakhappy

Someone mentioned that he is more than a six inning pitcher and I agree that he has this year. Look at his last four playoff starts...dude can't make it past 6 innings. He's far from elite...

E.T.A: I'd take a dead hooker over Cain anyday...

Cain has averaged over 6 innings per start in each of his 7 full seasons as a starter and just short of 7 innings per starting each of the past 3. From about 2008 on Bochy began routinely letting Cain, Lincecum.. and into this year Bumgarner and Vogelsong go deep and work their way out of late inning (7th or 8th) jams. As the season wore on, and the staff's performance hit a rut in late summer, Bochy's deleloped a much quicker hook. That's what you saw last night. Cain would've and very well could've finished that inning, and I have no doubt could've thrown 130 pitches as he's done many times before. He can't force his manager to keep him in the game though. Don't forget he's won a game 5 and a game 7 so far this postseason.. and had a 0.00 ERA in 21 postseason innings in 2010.

To your point about "star power".. you'd can't disagree that the Paul O'Neill, Scott Brossius, Jimmy Leyritz (and homegrown stars Jeter, Riveria, Posada) Yankees did a hell of a lot better than the trade/free agent All Star teams they assembled starting around 2002, 2003, 2004, and on... adding the Sheffields, Texieras and A-Rods haven't really paid off as hoped. I'm sure they'll enjoy eating $20 million of A-Rods contract while he plays for someone else next year.. or next FIVE YEARS! Definitely seems worth having that star power to me?!? Mets have had a lot of stars over the past 20 years also.. how many championships did they win with Mo Vaughn though? I'll take the Giants' 2010 and 2012 cast of characters over those stiffs any day.

This isn't unknowing "Frisco" fans getting over excited. I played baseball my entire life, I've watched baseball my entire life, had season tickets the better part of a decade living about 3 blocks from the ballpark, and I think I know the game pretty well. My excitemet for this team is well justified and I'm fully on board because they can win in a variety of ways with a variety of characters and all the while making due with the fewest homeruns in the league. Give me clean fielding, successful surprise bunts (see Zito), butcher plays, timely gap to gap hitting, and a solid starting staff and bullpen over a power dependent lineup with 3-4 modern day Rob Deers that hit .220 with 30 bombs to a short porch in right (please set Curtis Granderson free). This SF team's got incredible heart (like St Louis last year) and kept playing when down 0-2 and 1-3 in their two series rather than laying down, and that's why they're playing Wednesday.

[barrysloate]

Giants are blessed with five really good starting pitchers- Cain, Bumgarner, Vogelsong, Zito, and Lincecum- all of whom are capable of big games but also some poor ones. Lincecum is the biggest question mark- dreadful first half of the season, greatly improved second half, some really fine middle relief in the post season, one pretty bad start- so he might be best used in key situations in a relief role. He seems to excel throwing 2-3 innings in middle relief, and they already have four starters.

I think Giants are in the catbird seat. Expect them to lose three of the first four, then win the last three for the championship.

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by itjclarke

Cain has averaged over 6 innings per start in each of his 7 full seasons as a starter and just short of 7 innings per starting each of the past 3. From about 2008 on Bochy began routinely letting Cain, Lincecum.. and into this year Bumgarner and Vogelsong go deep and work their way out of late inning (7th or 8th) jams. As the season wore on, and the staff's performance hit a rut in late summer, Bochy's deleloped a much quicker hook. That's what you saw last night. Cain would've and very well could've finished that inning, and I have no doubt could've thrown 130 pitches as he's done many times before. He can't force his manager to keep him in the game though. Don't forget he's won a game 5 and a game 7 so far this postseason.. and had a 0.00 ERA in 21 postseason innings in 2010.

To your point about "star power".. you'd can't disagree that the Paul O'Neill, Scott Brossius, Jimmy Leyritz (and homegrown stars Jeter, Riveria, Posada) Yankees did a hell of a lot better than the trade/free agent All Star teams they assembled starting around 2002, 2003, 2004, and on... adding the Sheffields, Texieras and A-Rods haven't really paid off as hoped. I'm sure they'll enjoy eating $20 million of A-Rods contract while he plays for someone else next year.. or next FIVE YEARS! Definitely seems worth having that star power to me?!? Mets have had a lot of stars over the past 20 years also.. how many championships did they win with Mo Vaughn though? I'll take the Giants' 2010 and 2012 cast of characters over those stiffs any day.

This isn't unknowing "Frisco" fans getting over excited. I played baseball my entire life, I've watched baseball my entire life, had season tickets the better part of a decade living about 3 blocks from the ballpark, and I think I know the game pretty well. My excitemet for this team is well justified and I'm fully on board because they can win in a variety of ways with a variety of characters and all the while making due with the fewest homeruns in the league. Give me clean fielding, successful surprise bunts (see Zito), butcher plays, timely gap to gap hitting, and a solid starting staff and bullpen over a power dependent lineup with 3-4 modern day Rob Deers that hit .220 with 30 bombs to a short porch in right (please set Curtis Granderson free). This SF team's got incredible heart (like St Louis last year) and kept playing when down 0-2 and 1-3 in their two series rather than laying down, and that's why they're playing Wednesday.

Comparing the modern day 'frisco to the modern day Yankees is a joke...so we won't go there. I love the Giants this year and the way they have played, but like Anthony posted earlier, the Giants haven't had much to cheer about in recent years except their WS year. Barry's right, they have good pitching...deep pitching which I believe is key in baseball. Just hard to win without it. Their pitching has been great in the playoffs. We'll see how they matchup vs. one of the best offenses in the league.

Mentioning Zito in a sentence when describing good pitchers is a joke...a real funny joke. He's bad. Sure he's had a few good starts this postseason, but I'd be real worried on what's going to happen tonight...the REAL Zito will most likely show up.

Do you really think A-rod's contract will affect the Yankees that much? They will simply reload like they always do and be back next year. For knowing baseball you sure seem one-sided in your thinking.

[Anthony S.]

Originally Posted by freakhappy

Comparing the modern day 'frisco to the modern day Yankees is a joke...so we won't go there. I love the Giants this year and the way they have played, but like Anthony posted earlier, the Giants haven't had much to cheer about in recent years except their WS year. Barry's right, they have good pitching...deep pitching which I believe is key in baseball. Just hard to win without it. Their pitching has been great in the playoffs. We'll see how they matchup vs. one of the best offenses in the league.

I didn't say we haven't had much to cheer about in recent years, I merely pointed out that we had a rough spell from 2005 to 2008. We've made the World Series 3 times in the past 11 years, and won at least 90 games 7 times since 2000 (tied for most in the NL along with the Braves and Cardinals), so we're doing something right.

[barrysloate]

No way I'm giving up on Zito just yet. He won 15 games this year, had a great outing against St. Louis....is it asking too much for him to have a couple of quality starts against Detroit?

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

No way I'm giving up on Zito just yet. He won 15 games this year, had a great outing against St. Louis....is it asking too much for him to have a couple of quality starts against Detroit?

+1, I'll tell you what, if the Giants find a way to win game one and get Verlander out of the way for a while, Detroit's in trouble.

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

No way I'm giving up on Zito just yet. He won 15 games this year, had a great outing against St. Louis....is it asking too much for him to have a couple of quality starts against Detroit?

One can hope, Barry. He's gonna have to hope Verlander comes down with a virus to win this one.

[barrysloate]

Nice HR by Sandoval on a tough pitch.

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by freakhappy

One can hope, Barry. He's gonna have to hope Verlander comes down with a virus to win this one.

It's not sensitivity Freakhappy.. It's an aversion to BS. Btw- I said I rooted for the Yanks.. But due to your great ambassoring, I think I'm done doing so. Btw- how was Zito tonight???

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by freakhappy

Mentioning Zito in a sentence when describing good pitchers is a joke...a real funny joke. He's bad. Sure he's had a few good starts this postseason, but I'd be real worried on what's going to happen tonight...the REAL Zito will most likely show up.

Do you really think A-rod's contract will affect the Yankees that much? They will simply reload like they always do and be back next year. For knowing baseball you sure seem one-sided in your thinking.

Huh? I never said that, nor did I say half the things you seem to be responding to. I said I can't wait to see Zito throwing his 85 MPH junk vs a guy who blows 99 MPH gas. Contrasting styles in any sport are fun to watch. Not sure where "one sided" comes from. I like my team, but I've watched every WS since I could turn on a TV, regardless of who's playing. That the Yanks are not affected by ARod's deal is a joke and why a lot of people hate them. I myself never hated them and actually rooted for them in several of their WS matchups since '96. I like them a little less now because of you.. But I'll get over it. I'm tiring of typing and reading.. I'm going to the ballpark now. Goodbye.

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by itjclarke

Huh? I never said that, nor did I say half the things you seem to be responding to. I said I can't wait to see Zito throwing his 85 MPH junk vs a guy who blows 99 MPH gas. Contrasting styles in any sport are fun to watch. Not sure where "one sided" comes from. I like my team, but I've watched every WS since I could turn on a TV, regardless of who's playing. That the Yanks are not affected by ARod's deal is a joke and why a lot of people hate them. I myself never hated them and actually rooted for them in several of their WS matchups since '96. I like them a little less now because of you.. But I'll get over it. I'm tiring of typing and reading.. I'm going to the ballpark now. Goodbye.

Take it easy, Ian. I'm not hating on your Giants, just stating my opinion mixed in with some facts. And as for you not liking the Yankees just because I respond on a thread just says a lot about you...damn sensitive people!

[sportscardpete]

Originally Posted by freakhappy

Don't get me wrong, I know Cain has been consistent but other than the first half of this year, I don't see him being a dominating, great pitcher. He definitely came down the second half to his normal self.

Someone mentioned that he is more than a six inning pitcher and I agree that he has this year. Look at his last four playoff starts...dude can't make it past 6 innings. He's far from elite...

E.T.A: I'd take a dead hooker over Cain anyday...

Oh c'mon, ya he has been shaky this postseason but Cain is elite. IDK how you can possibly disagree with that. And 2nd half - in his last ten starts, only gave up over 2 runs once.. Not sure what you are seeing. Cain is money.

Who do you see as elite then right now?! Verlander? M. Price? Dead hookers?