Signed by Rocky Marciano or an elaborate hoax?

[travrosty]

that looks nothing like a 69 signature and i would love to see exemplars, i think they are relying on the provenance. anyone can have a letter made up.

i doubt it marciano would sign the year next to his name, and it seems to be in sharpie or a black felt pen and they just didnt use them in the 1960's. photos and and gloves that are legit are 99.9 percent signed in ink pen. it just doesnt add up but here they go again.

[travrosty]

i think ken should change the wording. it is confusing as it seems to say that psa authenticated the signed and worn glove.

when psa does not authenticate fight or training worn gloves, only signatures, the claim that it is worn has not been authenticated by psa or anyone and i think the wording should reflect that.

Also, I think Ken should answer to the charges that two of the top boxing autograph guys around strongly believe that this is not marciano's signature.

Ken?

[travrosty]

....

[Exhibitman]

Don't know about the sigs but the blanket statement re the availability of permanent ink felt tips is wrong. Permanent ink felt tips were invented in the 1950s and were widely marketed under the "Magic Marker" brand by the early 1960s. They were state of the art for the advertising industry by the late 1960s and sold in stationary stores. My mom was in advertising at the time and I recall going to her office as a little boy and being set up in the art department to play with the hundreds of markers. And trust me, I know from experience that they wrote on everything: walls, doors, floors...

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Don't know about the sigs but the blanket statement re the availability of permanent ink felt tips is wrong. Permanent ink felt tips were invented in the 1950s and were widely marketed under the "Magic Marker" brand by the early 1960s. They were state of the art for the advertising industry by the late 1960s and sold in stationary stores. My mom was in advertising at the time and I recall going to her office as a little boy and being set up in the art department to play with the hundreds of markers. And trust me, I know from experience that they wrote on everything: walls, doors, floors...

pay attention, i didnt say they werent available, i said they just werent used for signing autographs. people just didnt think of it. sharpies were invented in the 1960's but were hardly ever used until the 1980's

[travrosty]

i conversed with ken and he changed the wording and he is generally concerned about the glove and wants accuracy above everything else. many times in the past i have been brushed off by auction houses, but not by ken.

[RichardSimon]

I turn down about half the items offered to me to authenticate because they are signatures that I am not familiar with and I cannot render an opinion on them.
But the money grubbers at PSA would never do that, they prove it every time they look at a boxing autograph.
This is hardly the first time they have screwed up boxing.
Hey PSA - just say no. Your reputation is getting bashed here, was it worth it?

[JimStinson]

I personally was not trying to bash anyone, In fact everyone makes mistakes.
But the information I mentioned in this thread has been out there for a LONG LONG time and if ANYONE is going to charge good money for an expert opinion take an extra few minutes to do it right

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by travrosty

that looks nothing like a 69 signature and i would love to see exemplars, i think they are relying on the provenance. anyone can have a letter made up.

i doubt it marciano would sign the year next to his name, and it seems to be in sharpie or a black felt pen and they just didnt use them in the 1960's. photos and and gloves that are legit are 99.9 percent signed in ink pen. it just doesnt add up but here they go again.

I know nothing about Marciano or boxing signatures like you guys do, but love your thoughts on these. But maybe whoever got the "Marciano" wrote the date next to the signature. From signatures of anyone that have dated the item, this kind of seems off to the side from the signature, so maybe the original owner dated it to remember. Usually if the signer dates an item, it's usually closer to the signature...just my thoughts, but excited to see where this goes.

Brent

[RichardSimon]

I don't profess to be an expert on boxing but I am familiar with certain signatures. I must say that the index card with a purported Marciano signature sure looks very different from the authentic Marciano's that I have seen.
It is appropriate that it has its own personal casket.

[D. Bergin]

Jeez, if I had a nickel for every call I've gotten over the years from somebody claiming they (or their uncles, cousins, grandfathers, fathers) were buddies with Rocky and they've got the gloves (or sparring gloves) from the Walcott, Charles, Louis fights..................I'd have at least a couple bucks.


Rocky must have had a stash of gloves he gave out to anybody who asked. We all know he was a bit paranoid AND eccentric about certain things.

I wouldn't touch those gloves with a fishing pole. That index card looks horrible to. A Lou Marciano special, perhaps?

[JimStinson]

The index card is a scribbled Rocky GRAZIANO , former middleweight champ etc etc , the original collector appeared to have not been able to read it either and just pasted a pic of Marciano next to it and then who ever slabbed it just took his word for it

[Exhibitman]

What do you think JSA had to say about this one?

[JimStinson]

The white image above that on the white glove appears to be signed by Charley Goldman , Rocky's trainer.
When people would write to Rocky while he was training for a fight which was almost always Goldman would sign the stuff for him so as not to distract him from fight preparation. Goldman would sometimes do the same thing when things would be passed into the dressing room or gym. It was their job to see him CRANK out "SIT-UPS" not autographs

[JimStinson]

Like this postcard signed by Goldman, Rocky did not sign this

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by JimStinson

The white image above that on the white glove appears to be signed by Charley Goldman , Rocky's trainer.
When people would write to Rocky while he was training for a fight which was almost always Goldman would sign the stuff for him so as not to distract him from fight preparation. Goldman would sometimes do the same thing when things would be passed into the dressing room or gym. It was their job to see him CRANK out "SIT-UPS" not autographs

When you read this from Jim you know that PSA keeps showing us the fact that they have nobody who knows boxing.