Chipper jones first ballot hofer?

[Touch'EmAll]

Lets be fair - give a serious look at the stats - maybe he is fully worthy of First Ballot, maybe not...

All Star 8 out of 19 years - good, not HOF material
MVP voting - 1st once, next highest 4th, then 8th - Roger Maris won 2
Bat Avg - one 1st, one 2nd, no more top 3 rank
Runs Scored - highest ever rank is 4th
RBI - highest ever rank is 9th
HR's - one 3rd, one 9th, one 10th

Played long time and "accumulated" good stats because he was pretty much injury free (relatively). But not any earth shattering stats, honestly. Good leadership skills.

It took Joe Dimaggio the third attempt before even he was voted in HOF. Roger Maris won 2 MVP's, set biggest single season record of all time and he is not in HOF.

Verdict = He can play on my team anytime, borderline HOF'er after a few attempts. NO WAY first ballot.

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

Lets be fair - give a serious look at the stats - maybe he is fully worthy of First Ballot, maybe not...

All Star 8 out of 19 years - good, not HOF material
MVP voting - 1st once, next highest 4th, then 8th - Roger Maris won 2
Bat Avg - one 1st, one 2nd, no more top 3 rank
Runs Scored - highest ever rank is 4th
RBI - highest ever rank is 9th
HR's - one 3rd, one 9th, one 10th

Played long time and "accumulated" good stats because he was pretty much injury free (relatively). But not any earth shattering stats, honestly. Good leadership skills.

It took Joe Dimaggio the third attempt before even he was voted in HOF. Roger Maris won 2 MVP's, set biggest single season record of all time and he is not in HOF.

Verdict = He can play on my team anytime, borderline HOF'er after a few attempts. NO WAY first ballot.

Sorry, but you could not be more wrong. Your looking year to year instead of an entire resume. Chipper Jones has hit over 450 home runs while batting over .300. Willie Stargell(first ballot) can't make that claim. Eddie Murray(first ballot) can't make that claim. He also comes in at 50 for all time OBP. Above Joe D. Above Rod Carew(first ballot). Above Joe Morgan(first ballot). Above Honus Wagner. And just above Rickey Henderson(first ballot). Mix in the likability of Chipper and you got yourself a first ballot. Plus as of yet no Roids.

In regards to your Joe D not being a first ballot remark. At the time they had a large backlog of players who deserved to be in the Hall, but weren't because the Hall wasn't around till 1939. Jimmie Foxx didn't get in until the sixth.

[David W]

His stats are real close to Billy Williams, and if you factor in Billy's prime years were in the pitcher's era of the 60's, and Chipper played in the offensive boom years of the late 90's, early 2000's, they are about the same player.

Billy took 6 years to get in, I suspect Chipper gets in in less than that.

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by David W

His stats are real close to Billy Williams, and if you factor in Billy's prime years were in the pitcher's era of the 60's, and Chipper played in the offensive boom years of the late 90's, early 2000's, they are about the same player.

Billy took 6 years to get in, I suspect Chipper gets in in less than that.

Billy never won an MVP or a World Series. Nor did he play in one.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Jlighter

Sorry, but you could not be more wrong. Your looking year to year instead of an entire resume. Chipper Jones has hit over 450 home runs while batting over .300. Willie Stargell(first ballot) can't make that claim. Eddie Murray(first ballot) can't make that claim. He also comes in at 50 for all time OBP. Above Joe D. Above Rod Carew(first ballot). Above Joe Morgan(first ballot). Above Honus Wagner. And just above Rickey Henderson(first ballot). Mix in the likability of Chipper and you got yourself a first ballot. Plus as of yet no Roids.

In regards to your Joe D not being a first ballot remark. At the time they had a large backlog of players who deserved to be in the Hall, but weren't because the Hall wasn't around till 1939. Jimmie Foxx didn't get in until the sixth.

+1

[Touch'EmAll]

Aw, jeez, I didn't expect to get hammered with jabs folks, lighten up. I was full well and willing to see how his stats stacked up - if he was another Ted Williams in the stat department I would have given him BIG props. But honestly, the rankings he has (mind you national league only) just doesn't scream HOF first ballot.

The whole first half of his career he missed between 2 and 10 games per season. I do call that injury free. And the second half of his career he was well within the norm for any ballplayer having mild injuries that still enabled him to play the big majority of games. Take a look at most other players through history and you will see Chipper Jones is in the norm in this department. I said "pretty much, and relatively" injury free - I never said he was bomb proof with the injuries.

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

if he was another Ted Williams in the stat department I would have given him BIG props.

WoW! Talk about a tough criteria...

[Touch'EmAll]

The original question was if he is a "First Ballot" or not? Yes, he will get in, just not first ballot worthy.

And again I try to give him the benefit of doubt - I forgot to look at his defensive skills - very important overlook on my part, how incomplete I was in initial evaluation.

In reading text from Wikipedia..."on defense, however, his range factor of 2.14 placed him last among the regular major league third basemen who qualified for the fielding ranking."

[majordanby]

Baseball reference compares him to Eddie Mathews, Mike Schmidt, Mickey Mantle, and Billy Williams (other comparable players are either still playing or are his contemporaries). Mathews and Williams were not first ballot, while schmidt and mantle were.

If you look at career fWAR, Jones ranks 33rd, which is pretty darn good considering his injuries (and fWAR is a cumulative stat). Players around him include Ripken, Kaline, Boggs, Brooks Robinson, Dimaggio, Brett, Clemente, Cap anson, Gehringer, George Davis, Luke appling, and Bench. Eliminating the pre war players, Ripken, Kaline, Boggs, Robinson, Brett and Bench were first ballot guys. Griffey is also pretty close to him and my gut tells me he's a first ballot.

Include other circumstances that appear to favor him - well liked by the media, stayed with one team the entire time, many of his contemporaries, though potentially deserving, wont be inducted because of steroid implications, and he hasnt been linked to steroid usage (like griffey, whether we like it or not, many will point to his injuries as proof).

My guess is that he'll get in first ballot, not just because of his numbers, but the "other stuff" will help push him in. Just his numbers alone - no doubt HOF'er, but first ballot there is an argument against it (unlike with henderson in 09, ripken and gwynn in 07). The argument largely being the injuries over the last 8 seasons. But, an MVP and 5 other top 10 finishes is pretty darn convincing. And he did quite a bit in 07 and 08 (according to WAR, his two best seasons) despite the injuries.

[Jlighter]

The whole first half of his career he missed between 2 and 10 games per season. I do call that injury free.

So I guess that strike shortened 1994 season doesn't count? When he didn't play a game.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

lets be fair - give a serious look at the stats - maybe he is fully worthy of first ballot, maybe not...

All star 8 out of 19 years - good, not hof material
mvp voting - 1st once, next highest 4th, then 8th - roger maris won 2
bat avg - one 1st, one 2nd, no more top 3 rank
runs scored - highest ever rank is 4th
rbi - highest ever rank is 9th
hr's - one 3rd, one 9th, one 10th

played long time and "accumulated" good stats because he was pretty much injury free (relatively). But not any earth shattering stats, honestly. Good leadership skills.

It took joe dimaggio the third attempt before even he was voted in hof. Roger maris won 2 mvp's, set biggest single season record of all time and he is not in hof.

Verdict = he can play on my team anytime, borderline hof'er after a few attempts. No way first ballot.

relatively injury free?? Are you kidding me? Since 2004, he has missed a ton of games.....

[jjcollects]

yes!

[EvilKing00]

100%, comming from a met fan here too. The guy is an all time great no doubt