paying for USPS fault

[howard38]

,

[honus94566]

Don't ship expensive cards USPS, period. Send them with FedEx or UPS, insured, delivery signature required. Then nobody has any worries, and the shipper gets a full value refund in the highly unlikely event the card is lost.

[sb1]

Originally Posted by honus94566

Don't ship expensive cards USPS, period. Send them with FedEx or UPS, insured, delivery signature required. Then nobody has any worries, and the shipper gets a full value refund in the highly unlikely event the card is lost.

I believe if you tell UPS or FedEx that your paper collectible got lost in their service they will deny any claims, unless you had private insurance. I have had Fedex refuse to even ship a box once they learned it contained baseball cards, they term them as paper collectibles(even though they were slabbed) and treat them as perishable items and will not cover them.,

I have only had one or two incidents of loss with the USPS in over 30 years and each time was paid promptly and in full for the loss, once with USPS insurance and once with CIA insurance.

Edited to add, that USPS Registered mail is virtually loss free, the above post noted that they did not track the exchange's but in my experience you never see that on the USPS system until the package is delivered, the rest is internal with the USPS. A USPS employee told me that 99.99% of Registered's get delivered, you lose one and you're looking for a new job, also USPS Overnight is extremely reliable has to be signed for, sees very few different hands and is in the system so short and sweet the delivery rate is again nearly 100%, although not everywhere is guaranteed 1 day service. We use USPS for all of our auctions and use a lot of priority large and small boxes and do not charge exceedling high charges, enough to cover the USPS charge and a small amount for our private insurance.

[Clutch-Hitter]

Originally Posted by sb1

I believe if you tell UPS or FedEx that your paper collectible got lost in their service they will deny any claims, unless you had private insurance. I have had Fedex refuse to even ship a box once they learned it contained baseball cards, they term them as paper collectibles(even though they were slabbed) and treat them as perishable items and will not cover them.,

I have only had one or two incidents of loss with the USPS in over 30 years and each time was paid promptly and in full for the loss, once with USPS insurance and once with CIA insurance.

Edited to add, that USPS Registered mail is virtually loss free, the above post noted that they did not track the exchange's but in my experience you never see that on the USPS system until the package is delivered, the rest is internal with the USPS. A USPS employee told me that 99.99% of Registered's get delivered, you lose one and you're looking for a new job, also USPS Overnight is extremely reliable has to be signed for, sees very few different hands and is in the system so short and sweet the delivery rate is again nearly 100%, although not everywhere is guaranteed 1 day service. We use USPS for all of our auctions and use a lot of priority large and small boxes and do not charge exceedling high charges, enough to cover the USPS charge and a small amount for our private insurance.

Interesting. Beckett uses Fedex.

I bought a card in the past that was scanned as delivered to my house approx four hours prior to the approx time the mail carrier enters my neighborhood (routinely). A few weeks after not receiving the card, I emailed the seller, and he said tracking showed it delivered a week or so prior. He started a thread here asking if he should refund my money, to which I replied. As it turned out, an entire crate of local packages were scanned as delivered residentially when they were in fact at the post office.

Waste Management rode by while I commented here, spilling garbage out while the driver was reclined in the seat. An elderly female followed in an effort to prevent more littering. I likened USPS to Waste Management in their lack of dilligence at the time. And when I arrive home to find the green dumpsters littering the street, I'm reminded of that E90-1.

[steve B]

When I was selling a fair ammount of stuff on Ebay I usually paid for the insurance on anything expensive or fragile. The $5 cards I didn't bother figuring if it went missing I'd just take the hit and refund.

I have had UPS refuse packages even without insurance. One was a barn find computer that was collectible, they insisted on it being shiped in the original styrofoam. Even after I explained that the original packaging was likely tossed over 20 years ago and wouldn't be of much use anyway and that the computer was obviously good only for parts- It had hay sticking out of the empty drive bay. Nope, wouldn't take it at all. They also refused the half a victrola because it was an antique and didn't come with an appraisal.
Thanks UPS for making me carry 120Lbs of stuff into the shipping center then rejecting it with unannounced policies.

The post office accepted both, and charged less.

I haven't had to deal with UPS or Fedex on lost/damaged packages except for while I was shipping stuff for work through a commercial account. But I have helped a friend with a damage claim through USPS, and the process went smoothly. He had to show the packing and the damaged item - An Edison cylinder player- To someone at a main post office, as well as an estimate for the repair from an expert or two. There was only one local repairer, so being a fixit guy I wrote one out for him. I just matched the experts quote. His price was very reasonable, and I doubt I could have done as well for as little. USPS paid in a few weeks, pretty much as they said to expect.

Steve B

[glynparson]

I would assume they have outside insurance that allows for fed ex. I know many do.

[buymycards]

Yes I would refund the money for the item. Here is my take on it from a Postal employees perspective and I deal with this all day long. I know that not all post offices run like this, but this is the way it happens at my po.

1. We pay very close attention to our scans. When they come in on the truck we scan each package as "Arrived at Unit". We expect the carriers to scan every parcel as "attempted", delivered", etc. Each carrier has a scanner with it's own unique serial number. Each day I compare the number of scans that are made by the carriers to number of parcels that arrived at our office. If I see a parcel that wasn't scanned correctly I talk to the carrier about the missed scan and they need to have a good reason. "I forgot" isn't a good reason. 99.1 % of our parcels are scanned and delivered on the day that we receive them. Once in a while a new carrier will scan a parcel as delivered, but deliver it to the wrong house. Once in a while the barcode will be smudged and we won't be able to scan it. Once in a while the parcel will have an incorrect address and a new carrier will deliver it as it is addressed instead of getting it to the correct address. I tell our carriers that 99.1% is pretty good, unless you are part of the 0.9% whose packaged didn't get handled correctly.

2. When I receive a call about a missing package or if someone calls and says their package is showing as delivered but they didn't receive it, I start out by talking to the carrier. Does the carrier remember delivering this package? Where did you put it? Was it too large to fit in the mailbox and you put it somewhere else? Has the customer moved and the carrier delivered it to the old address? Was the package addressed correctly? Then I talk to the customer: Did you look on the porch? Were your kids home? Who brought the mail in from the mailbox? You would be surprised how many times the kids brought in the mail and put the package somewhere and the parents weren't aware of it. Or the package may be on the porch. Or the people recently moved and didn't file a change of address card and the package was mailed to their old address. 9 times out of 10 the problem is with the customer and about 1 time out of 10 the carrier is at fault. Last Xmas we stopped package delivery at one of the trailer parks because someone was stealing USPS and UPS packages as soon as they were delivered. There are also many eBay scammers who make a living by saying they didn't receive their packages.

3. Most of the people who work for the Post Office are good, hard working people who are trying their best to do a good job. Sometimes they make mistakes but we try to find ways to limit the mistakes. Once in a while we run across a clerk or a carrier who just doesn't care, and then we have problems.

So anyway, yes, I would refund the money. Thanks for letting me ramble.

Rick

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by honus94566

Don't ship expensive cards USPS, period. Send them with FedEx or UPS, insured, delivery signature required. Then nobody has any worries, and the shipper gets a full value refund in the highly unlikely event the card is lost.

FedEx will deny refunds for collectibles. USPS doesn't really ask questions when a file is claimed, other then an invoice for the item in the package showing the amount of the transaction. They don't really care what it is.

[Batter67up]

If you pay through Paypal, they require the seller to have signature confirmation not just delivery confirmation. If a dispute is opened by the purchaser, the seller must provide a signature confirmation or they will be required to refund the buyer the purchase price.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by howard38

But the seller also turned down insurance when he was at the post office mailing the package so why put it just on the buyer? Ultimately it is the seller's responsibility to get the card to the customer and therefore his responsibility to insure the package. If insurance is too much of a financial burden he can include it in his original shipping charge.

We are in agreement. That is why I said I think I voted backwards. It is the sellers responsibility, without any other agreement, to get the card to the buyer.. Again, that is what I said.

[rainier2004]

The seller has the responsibility to get the package to to the buyer. According to ebay in response to this question:

"Sellers aren't permitted to charge buyers a separate fee for insurance, either optional or required. In other words, buyer should see no separate line item for insurance fees within an item description or checkout. If a seller has chosen to purchase insurance to protect themselves, they can recover the cost of insurance within the handling fee or item price. Accordingly, sellers are permitted to state within their listings that the handling fees include insurance, or that shipping costs include insurance. However, there can be no indication of a separate insurance fee or an option to purchase insurance at checkout. By removing optional or required shipping insurance, we are adjusting tohelp meet buyer expectations for ecommerce and aligning with industry standard practices. In most circumstances, buyers do not expect to pay for the cost of shipping insurance. This change also reflects the industry - and eBay - standard practices that sellers are responsible for their items until they are safely in their customers' hands. I would suggest for you to request a cancellation of the transaction if you and the seller not agreeing the terms and condition rather than to continue with it. Thank you for being a valuable member of the eBay community. Have a wonderful time shopping and selling on eBay! Sincerely, Alice M. O. eBay Customer Support"

I offer insurance to net54 members, and feel if they turn it down the responsibility is now on them. Morally, you should do your best to communicate to the buyer the plan of safe arrival and live up to it. I have received cards from net54 members that I paid $1k and $650 for that were not insured. I wonder what those 2 members would have done if I had never got my cards? I guess I need to post my name on this one-
Steve Suckow