Sellers who guarantee an item to pass but won't refund authentication fees

[packs]

A seller isn't under any obligation to guarantee any outcome of a third party grader's inspection. If you do, then that has nothing to do with the buyer deciding to play the TPG game.

Buyers are free to play the gamble game on auctions that state a refund of the purchase price will be given if the item fails authenticaton. But a guarantee isn't a gamble or an if. And if you are going to guarantee something, then I don't see what the issue is with putting your money where your mouth is.

[drc]

Not strictly talking about autographs, but when I was selling it I allowed the buyer to return it within specified reasonable amount of time for refund, with no questions asked. The buyer had time to look it over, show it to a friend or whatever. If he didn't return it (any reason allowed), he didn't return it.

[prewarsports]

I understand what you are saying but here is the difference in my opinion

Scenario 1. "I guarantee this item to be authentic". It fails, you go to get your money back and you have to get into the whole "Woo are they to say my autograph is not real etc." and then you have to get into the whole "I say its real, they say its not, you cant prove anything" situation of he said she said.

Scenario 2. "I Guarantee this item to be authentic and to pass any third party grader you choose, PSA, JSA whatever". It fails, refund end of story!

I think that is why you put that in an auction description, peace of mind knowing that you will stand behind the item based on the opinion of another person. It is the same guarantee (at least from well respected dealers) but some people might be left arguing over the grey area in Scenario 1.

Rhys

[prewarsports]

As a side note, I always have and always will refund Baseball Card Grading fees if a card is fake or timmed, so I see your point, but there its like $10 and it is a good will gesture more than anything. Some autograph authentications can run more than the item is worth. I see people with slabbed encapsulated Monte Irvin Index Cards all the time. If I sell a Monte Irvin for $5 and some guy overnights it to PSA to get it slabbed for a show or something and it fails, he is out 10X more than he paid for the signature and I would end up owing him back $55 on his $5 purchase (and it might not be fake anyways). With cards at least if it is deemed "counterfeit" or recolored or rebacked there is concrete evidence to show it and in that case, yes I think it would ethical.

As another sidenote, if an autograph seller is forging signatures than I think part of the restitution would be to refund any and all authentication fees but that is a different can of worms (IE: Coaches Corner).

Rhys

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by packs

A seller isn't under any obligation to guarantee any outcome of a third party grader's inspection. If you do, then that has nothing to do with the buyer deciding to play the TPG game.

Buyers are free to play the gamble game on auctions that state a refund of the purchase price will be given if the item fails authenticaton. But a guarantee isn't a gamble or an if. And if you are going to guarantee something, then I don't see what the issue is with putting your money where your mouth is.

You said it earlier in that it's a matter of semantics, and more importantly, unstated assumptions as to the extent of the "guarantee." If the seller is okay with being on the hook for whatever authentication you choose to submit the item to, and tells you that he is okay with that, then obviously that's a favorable situation for you as the buyer. Plenty have given reasons here why it doesn't make business sense for the seller to subject themselves to that hook, but if the seller wants to knowingly leave themselves open to whatever authentication fees you may choose to throw on top of the deal, that's their right.

More important though is that you get those semantic gray areas cleared up BEFORE completing the transaction. Too often deals go bad because someone made an incorrect assumption and then wants to hold the other party to that assumption. If you don't ask for clarification, you don't have any right to hold a seller to anything more than was stated in their listing, and if you're working from a different definition of the extent of "guaranteed to pass xyz" than most sellers (and you are, judging by the previous posts), you owe it to them as a responsible buyer to clear that up beforehand. It's fine if you want to argue semantics, but do so before money has changed hands.

[drc]

One reason a seller wouldn't blindly guarantee to refund 'authentication fees' is he has no idea what (if any) authentication the buyer will have the autograph go through. For all the seller knows, a buyer could send a Bob Feller ball to JSA then PSA then Richard Simon then Chris Morales then PSA a second time and 5 monthrs later the seller could end up with a $500 authentication fee refund on a $17 ball.

[Sean1125]

I'm guaranteeing the item with my research and the opinions of others. I know the item is good, even if TPG thinks it's bad - I truly believe the item is real.

So I am willing to protect your purchase price on the item plus shipping + shipping back.

It was your decision to send it to a TPG, if that hologram before putting iton a wall meant $50 to you, but they said no - you can still put it on a wall it knowing at any time (in the somewhat near future) you could return it for a full refund.

[packs]

I'm not disagreeing with you guys. I think it's fine if a seller will refund only the purchase price if an item fails. I have no problem with that. But we're not talking about the same thing. Sometimes I feel like I know what I mean but I have trouble expressing it. I'm letting it go. We're all in agreement that a seller doesn't have an obligation to cover fees because they sold an unauthenticated item that failed. I'm with you on that.

[shelly]

Most of the time there praying you don not send it to a tpa because he knows it is bad. If come back big deal only cost him freight.
I have never seen anyone that says if it is bad I will refund the fee for having it looked at. If he thought it was authentic then he would get it done and make more money selling it. All he is saying it will pass tpa's