This is the problem with grading...

[Matthew H]

It's interesting that Joe O has seen this thread but not the Art Shell... It's right there in post #1.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Matthew H

It's interesting that Joe O has seen this thread but not the Art Shell... It's right there in post #1.

I am not positive but would guess he meant he hasn't seen it in person. I have to believe he has seen scans.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Leon

I am not positive but would guess he meant he hasn't seen it in person. I have to believe he has seen scans.

Those scans (Shell) are so large that I don't think seeing it in person would make a difference one way or the other. Anybody can tell that card shouldn't have graded a 10.

I realize we can be held responsible for what we say on a public forum. It's just too bad that PSA can't be held accountable for overgrading that card. Well, I guess they could if the purchaser wanted to pursue it. I wonder if he's seen this thread?

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

It's just too bad that PSA can't be held accountable for overgrading that card. Well, I guess they could if the purchaser wanted to pursue it. I wonder if he's seen this thread?

David, the purchaser has the slab and his flip that he paid for - I doubt he'll be complaining.

Given our hobby's acceptance of slabbing companies, followed by our acceptance that grading is subjective, not much to be done. We brought it on ourselves.

[markf31]

I've been paying attention to this thread off and on now, I keep asking a couple questions in my head and maybe some of you know the answers.

Does anyone know the grading process at PSA or even SGC?
How many individuals are involved in grading a particular card?
Is there a QA/QC of the grade before the card is slabbed?

I've never seen an outline of the process that PSA or SGC go through in grading a card. With situations like this, when we wonder "How did that card get graded a 10?" wouldn't it be helpful to know how TPGs actually go about the process? I certainly hope that more than a single individual is involved in assigning a grade to a particular card. Wouldn't unusually high grades, like a pre-1980 Gem Mint 10 draw additional attention and scrutiny within PSA or SGC?

[t206hound]

Originally Posted by markf31

I've been paying attention to this thread off and on now, I keep asking a couple questions in my head and maybe some of you know the answers.

Does anyone know the grading process at PSA or even SGC?
How many individuals are involved in grading a particular card?
Is there a QA/QC of the grade before the card is slabbed?

I've never seen an outline of the process that PSA or SGC go through in grading a card. With situations like this, when we wonder "How did that card get graded a 10?" wouldn't it be helpful to know how TPGs actually go about the process? I certainly hope that more than a single individual is involved in assigning a grade to a particular card. Wouldn't unusually high grades, like a pre-1980 Gem Mint 10 draw additional attention and scrutiny within PSA or SGC?

You can read PSAs grading process here:
http://www.psacard.com/services/psa_..._process.chtml

If I read it correctly, a minimum of four different people review each card for grading accuracy.

I don't know the official process at SGC, but I do know that I've had grades that have changed during the process (both up and down, and even to AUTH) prior to slabbing.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Runscott

David, the purchaser has the slab and his flip that he paid for - I doubt he'll be complaining.

Scott, what I meant was that if he wanted to hold PSA accountable for that mis-grade (which any reasonable person would agree that it is), he certainly has the right.

From PSA's website: "PSA guarantees that all cards submitted to it shall be graded in accordance with PSA grading standards and under the procedures of PSA"

You're probably right though, he won't be complaining. It's already in his registry and it boosted the GPA of his set keeping him at number one and that's probably all that matters to him. Card? What card? He only bought plastic and a label.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Scott, what I meant was that if he wanted to hold PSA accountable for that mis-grade (which any reasonable person would agree that it is), he certainly has the right.

From PSA's website: "PSA guarantees that all cards submitted to it shall be graded in accordance with PSA grading standards and under the procedures of PSA"

I'm not as good as some of you at telling when a slabbing company has ventured 'too far' from their standards, mainly because I don't collect sharp-cornered cards and don't have as much exposure to them. I also am not clear what 'holding PSA accountable' would amount to. Do we have any examples of this happening in the past?

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

You're probably right though,...

More people need to say this

[Leon]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

He only bought plastic and a label.

I agree. But that being said, I will refer back to what my dear, dear Grandma (*RIP) used to tell me, ""It's your money and you can do with it as you please." Based on Peter S.'s comment today I bought some Novus #2 to help my plastic collection. I am trying for the #1 set of plastic of all time. Wish me well!!

[drc]

I think the problem is with the buyers more the graders. PSA no doubt likes the price, but never told anyone to spend $3,000+ on a 1973 Topps Art Shell. The prices for PSA 8s versus 9s versus 10s are created by the buyers. PSA may indeed promote things via the registry and advertising, but buying into a marketing campaign is no excuse, at least if you're an adult. It's the buyers' money.

So, do I think spending $3,000+ on this Art Malone card to be stupid? Yes, very. But I don't blame PSA.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

It's already in his registry and it boosted the GPA of his set keeping him at number one and that's probably all that matters to him.

And he can keep bragging that his is bigger than yours.
The registry thing is such a scam,,, just a marketing idea that struck gold for the TPA.
Hope they never try it with autographs,,, we have enough problems on that end but thank goodness no registry crap.

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by Runscott

David, the purchaser has the slab and his flip that he paid for - I doubt he'll be complaining.

Given our hobby's acceptance of slabbing companies, followed by our acceptance that grading is subjective, not much to be done. We brought it on ourselves.

+1 Well said.

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by Runscott

David, the purchaser has the slab and his flip that he paid for - I doubt he'll be complaining.

I often wonder what would happen if someone was able to sneak into collections, crack the dubious 10s out of their slabs and remove the flip. If the card is undamaged was there a crime?

Note: You would have to ignore the part about breaking and entering, vandalism, and the need to pay for regrading. I'm talking about just the change to the card's value in the slab vs out of the slab since technically the card is completely unchanged.