Relentless Negativity

alexautographs · #1 08-20-2012, 06:38 PM

Profane language has no place on any forum. If the members can't agree to be civil, they can PM each other, and threaten to kill each other's dogs, or whatever....

None of you know me, except Jim, Shelly and Travis - but my credentials outside of this forum are, IMHO, well proven.

You good people have a choice:

a.) Tear each other to bits over whose authenticator is best, or;
b.) Work for the common good.

I obviously have my preferences, and have said so in the past. As well illustrated here, the more infighting there is here (ex: Travis vs. Zipper, for example), the less that will be accomplished - except to scare any potential collector out of the hobby altogether. Jim and Richard have their opinions, but I haven't seen them pile on.

I know both Travis and Richard only through their anti-fraud efforts. They are NOT anti-authenticators - they are anti-profiteers and anti-incompetence. Have they made mistakes? Of course. Have I made mistakes? Bunches. We admit them. The TPAs don't.

Yes, PSA/DNA make mistakes. Yes, Spence makes mistakes. The differences between them and auctioneers/dealers are:

a.) They authenticate in fields in which, I believe, they are not qualified to judge;
b.) I believe there is a great deal of favoritism towards big-time customers;
c.) They authenticate via scans, and guarantee (with money), nothing;
d.) There is no record of their revoking their approvals;
e.) They make no public rebuttals or statements whatsoever - and PSA is a publicly-held company.

Yes, they do the public good. But since they charge a hefty fee and are now market-makers, they must be held accountable for their authentications. And as I said, if they say it's bad, it's ruined, even if Derek signed it and wiped hi pen on your shirt.

Comments???

alexautographs · #2 08-20-2012, 06:42 PM

PS - And any dealer, experienced collector, or auctioneer who belittles a newbie collector is:

a.) A profiteer;
b.) A know-it-all;
c.) Diminishing his stature in the hobby, or;
d.) Losing three times as many potential customers through his idiotic postings.

"An ego is a terrible thing to abuse..."

David Atkatz · #3 08-20-2012, 06:43 PM

Been saying the same things for years, Bill, re: PSA/JSA.

(And I know you--old customer of yours.)

thenavarro · #4 08-20-2012, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexautographs

None of you know me, except Jim, Shelly and Travis - but my credentials outside of this forum are, IMHO, well proven.

Comments???

If you are Bill P and not someone posting under his corporate name, then there are more people that know you here than you think

I've purchased/sold many items to/from you including Albert Einstein, Thomas Edison, Sam Houston, John Hancock, etc etc etc

Mike

shelly · #5 08-20-2012, 07:39 PM

I have taken more bashing than I think anyone on this site. Yes a Felon but in the near future many of the people that you thought where Gods will join me in that title.. As Truman said" if you cant take the heat get out the kitchen." As for Ty Cobb. Who was the first person when asked told you that the Williams and the Koufax where both bad. if you where insulted that I could not get over your total obsessin with a ball cube then I am sorry You on the other hand came at me and Chris like we poisned you food. So don't ever be afraid to come on here. It seems you know just what to do when your feelings are hurt.
As for the rest of the people that are offended by what takes place here so am
Bill you are right this site was a great place for people to learn. I am proud that I hold the title to the longest thread in the history of net 54.It never would have happened if it wasn't for so many people coming together for a very important cause. We might not have all agreed but that was not important.
Last but not least. How many of you that posted on this thread are guilty of what you know say is relentless negativity.

not horrible as stated before.

Runscott · #6 08-20-2012, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shelly

How many of you that posted on this thread are guilty of what you know say is so horrible.?

Me!

However, I don't say it's horrible - I realize that when people are going through shlt, or are just temporarily too bored for their own good, they might behave badly. Some such people seem to be going through a lifetime of that attitude - mine is only in short spurts.

TyrusRCobb · #7 08-21-2012, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shelly

I have taken more bashing than I think anyone on this site. Yes a Felon but in the near future many of the people that you thought where Gods will join me in that title.. As Truman said" if you cant take the heat get out the kitchen." As for Ty Cobb. Who was the first person when asked told you that the Williams and the Koufax where both bad. if you where insulted that I could not get over your total obsessin with a ball cube then I am sorry You on the other hand came at me and Chris like we poisned you food. So don't ever be afraid to come on here. It seems you know just what to do when your feelings are hurt.
As for the rest of the people that are offended by what takes place here so am
Bill you are right this site was a great place for people to learn. I am proud that I hold the title to the longest thread in the history of net 54.It never would have happened if it wasn't for so many people coming together for a very important cause. We might not have all agreed but that was not important.
Last but not least. How many of you that posted on this thread are guilty of what you know say is relentless negativity.

not horrible as stated before.

Shelly, as I stated in my post, I attacked you having never met you and was ashamed for doing so. I'm really not that type of person. Please accept my sincere apology.
Adam

shelly · #8 08-21-2012, 11:01 AM

Ty, no problem. like I said everyone on here is out to help you not hurt you. Just tell us what you need and you will find a whole lot of people come out of the woodwork to help.

Shelly

drc · #9 08-21-2012, 11:55 AM

I thought recently this board hadn't been so bad. Some non-negative threads right now. Duly note that relentless negativity gets old fast with me, so I'm not someone with a high threshold for it. I wouldn't say I thought it was "not so bad recently" if I didn't think it.

I believe the reasons this was separated from the memorabilia board was because both there were a plethora of bad auction threads (with some arguments) and two there were more autograph threads than non-autograph. So part was the popularity of the autograph topic.

Clearly, people come to this forum for opinions on their autographs (they often specifically ask for opinions on their autographs), so authenticity opinions seem to an integral part of the the forum.

There are long fights and controversies on the card forum too (see the recent Goldin and Heritage threads), though they seem to be more spread out between harmless informational topics.

I think it would be nice to see some interesting informational threads and such, as opposed to just the latest scams and forgeries. One nice thing about about the card forum is there are regular threads on that order.

slidekellyslide · #10 08-21-2012, 12:28 PM

For those of us outside of the autograph hobby, but semi-interested in what goes on in here, it's a sideshow. I like all of the participants even though it's clear that some of them really detest each other. I think all of them have the same end goal of making this a safer hobby, but they tend to focus on different aspects of the bad side of the hobby and they take it to a personal level.

As a moderator I tried in vain to mediate some of what was going on when it was on the memorabilia side...I've completely given up that effort since the move and that may be why it seems even more negative.

Fuddjcal · #11 08-20-2012, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexautographs

Profane language has no place on any forum. If the members can't agree to be civil, they can PM each other, and threaten to kill each other's dogs, or whatever....

None of you know me, except Jim, Shelly and Travis - but my credentials outside of this forum are, IMHO, well proven.

You good people have a choice:

a.) Tear each other to bits over whose authenticator is best, or;
b.) Work for the common good.

I obviously have my preferences, and have said so in the past. As well illustrated here, the more infighting there is here (ex: Travis vs. Zipper, for example), the less that will be accomplished - except to scare any potential collector out of the hobby altogether. Jim and Richard have their opinions, but I haven't seen them pile on.

I know both Travis and Richard only through their anti-fraud efforts. They are NOT anti-authenticators - they are anti-profiteers and anti-incompetence. Have they made mistakes? Of course. Have I made mistakes? Bunches. We admit them. The TPAs don't.

Yes, PSA/DNA make mistakes. Yes, Spence makes mistakes. The differences between them and auctioneers/dealers are:

a.) They authenticate in fields in which, I believe, they are not qualified to judge;
b.) I believe there is a great deal of favoritism towards big-time customers;
c.) They authenticate via scans, and guarantee (with money), nothing;
d.) There is no record of their revoking their approvals;
e.) They make no public rebuttals or statements whatsoever - and PSA is a publicly-held company.

Yes, they do the public good. But since they charge a hefty fee and are now market-makers, they must be held accountable for their authentications. And as I said, if they say it's bad, it's ruined, even if Derek signed it and wiped hi pen on your shirt.

Comments???

Someone should take a screen shot of this and save it for later because NO ONE has or could make this point any better or more clear. We don't need endless analogies, one sided Willies, or dog piling on the rabbit... NOW, the next time this subject comes up, maybe we can just re-post this and be done with it.....

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