This is the problem with grading...

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

All that does is kick the issue down the road for a later round of questions with the same problem.

No, there is a singular situation here with one consignor/shill bidder. The same problem only comes up if Rick continues to let the same consignor bid on his own auctions -- especially after having knowledge of it now.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Honestly, this is not a big issue for me. If pank21 doesn't want to let a card go under a certain amount, Rick can accomplish the same result with a minimum bid or an undisclosed reserve, or letting pank21 put in a bid at that amount, and it makes no difference to me what route he takes to get there. Where shill bidding bothers me is where the auction house knows a max bid (not possible for an ebay seller) and tells the consignor so they can run up the max bidder.

Is everyone on here really so pure that they have NEVER bid on a card they consigned, or asked a friend to bid on a card they were auctioning, or put in a bid on a friend's auction when asked to? Somehow, I doubt it.

Yeah, feel free to ridicule me for condoning FRAUD!!

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Honestly, this is not a big issue for me. If pank21 doesn't want to let a card go under a certain amount, Rick can accomplish the same result with a minimum bid or an undisclosed reserve, or letting pank21 put in a bid at that amount, and it makes no difference to me what route he takes to get there. Where shill bidding bothers me is where the auction house knows a max bid (not possible for an ebay seller) and tells the consignor so they can run up the max bidder.

Is everyone on here really so pure that they have NEVER bid on a card they consigned, or asked a friend to bid on a card they were auctioning? Somehow, I doubt it.

Yeah, feel free to ridicule me for condoning FRAUD!!

NOW you're enjoying the hobby! Congratulations.

[Peter_Spaeth]

And the response on the merits is? I missed that.

[nolemmings]

Is everyone on here really so pure that they have NEVER bid on a card they consigned, or asked a friend to bid on a card they were auctioning? Somehow, I doubt it.

I have not--ever. And I'm far from pure.

And it does make a difference to me if he shills as opposed to having a minimum bid or reserve price. Maybe the auction house scenario you described is worse, but that doesn't mean this guy didn't cheat too.

[Peter_Spaeth]

To me, it's like seeing a patient (the hobby) with a broken back and focusing on his hangnail.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

I have not--ever. And I'm far from pure.

And it does make a difference to me if he shills as opposed to having a minimum bid or reserve price. Maybe the auction house scenario you described is worse, but that doesn't mean this guy didn't cheat too.

Agreed. I read somewhere in this thread where somebody wrote that the shill didn't really matter because it didn't afftect the final price. That's not the point. The point is, if people are willing to shill small items/amounts, they're also willing to shill larger items/amounts.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Agreed. I read somewhere in this thread where somebody wrote that the shill didn't really matter because it didn't afftect the final price. That's not the point. The point is, if people are willing to shill small items/amounts, they're also willing to shill larger items/amounts.

If the "shill" is merely a substitute for an opening bid or a reserve -- that is, the price the consignor is willing to let the card go for -- I don't see this concern. Would you feel better if Rick just puts reserves on cards, and WHY would that make you feel any better?