On this date, 78 years ago, "The Great One" was born...

[Mark]

Ok, if you want to troll in a thread intended to honor the late, great Roberto, so be it. Roberto was called "the Great One." He sometimes jokingly referred to himself as "the Great Roberto." The fact that Alexander son of Philip was called the "Great One" back in 350 bc doesn't mean that others weren't called "the Great One" in their lifetimes. Now, what difference does it make if some people think that a hockey player is "the great one?" Maybe you guys think that only Gretzky deserves the name. Maybe the issue that you want to raise is whether Clemente was, in fact, a great baseball player. If you consult what experienced and intelligent baseball people thought about him, you will learn that he was a magnificent outfielder who played with a rare combination of grace and intensity. During the mid to late 1960's, he had some terrific seasons as a fielder and as a hitter. Playing in spacious Forbes Field in a league dominated by great pitching, he had some very impressive offensive stats. From 64-69, he averaged an overall WAR of 7.66 while Mays, during the same period, averaged a WAR of 7.28. Aaron averaged 7.46 for those years. Sure, Mays was older and had had even more astounding totals in earlier years, but the point is that during that era Clemente was an extraordinary player, a true baller, who ranked among the very best in the game. Having given you guys some reasons why he was called the Great One, I have to say that I thnk it is truly obnoxous for people to turn a thread that is meant to honor the memory of the late, great Roberto into a debate about whether he is worthy of a nickname. Does he get a lot of extra attention because he was Puerto Rican and because he died in a noble effort to help earthquake victims? Of course. But neither of those reason would account for why he was called the Great One in his lifetime. If anybody is more interested in learning why he was called this than in asserting that he didn't deserve it, I recommend the Maraniss biography or the Markusen.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by Mark

Ok, if you want to troll in a thread intended to honor the late, great Roberto, so be it. Roberto was called "the Great One." He sometimes jokingly referred to himself as "the Great Roberto." The fact that Alexander son of Philip was called the "Great One" back in 350 bc doesn't mean that others weren't called "the Great One" in their lifetimes. Now, what difference does it make if some people think that a hockey player is "the great one?" Maybe you guys think that only Gretzky deserves the name. Maybe the issue that you want to raise is whether Clemente was, in fact, a great baseball player. If you consult what experienced and intelligent baseball people thought about him, you will learn that he was a magnificent outfielder who played with a rare combination of grace and intensity. During the mid to late 1960's, he had some terrific seasons as a fielder and as a hitter. Playing in spacious Forbes Field in a league dominated by great pitching, he had some very impressive offensive stats. From 64-69, he averaged an overall WAR of 7.66 while Mays, during the same period, averaged a WAR of 7.28. Aaron averaged 7.46 for those years. Sure, Mays was older and had had even more astounding totals in earlier years, but the point is that during that era Clemente was an extraordinary player, a true baller, who ranked among the very best in the game. Having given you guys some reasons why he was called the Great One, I have to say that I thnk it is truly obnoxous for people to turn a thread that is meant to honor the memory of the late, great Roberto into a debate about whether he is worthy of a nickname. Does he get a lot of extra attention because he was Puerto Rican and because he died in a noble effort to help earthquake victims? Of course. But neither of those reason would account for why he was called the Great One in his lifetime. If anybody is more interested in learning why he was called this than in asserting that he didn't deserve it, I recommend the Maraniss biography or the Markusen.

Well said

[MacDice]

Just because I have a slightly difference opinion on your favorite player does not mean the I am "trolling." Without a doubt the world would be a better place if we had more people with the strong moral beliefs that Roberto had. Also why does it mater if he was from Puetro Rico? His outstanding playing ability, strong moral beliefs and countless charity acts have nothing to do with his ethnicity. Judge a man on what he is (or was) not on where he was from.

[packs]

Maybe you should not post in this thread.

[71buc]

Originally Posted by MacDice

Just because I have a slightly difference opinion on your favorite player does not mean the I am "trolling." Without a doubt the world would be a better place if we had more people with the strong moral beliefs that Roberto had. Also why does it mater if he was from Puetro Rico? His outstanding playing ability, strong moral beliefs and countless charity acts have nothing to do with his ethnicity. Judge a man on what he is (or was) not on where he was from.

For fans with latin ancestory like myself he is our Jackie Robinson. His ethnicity is as important to who he was as it is to who Robinson was. These two men are more than mere baseball players. Clemente transcends baseball. He embodied grace, compassion, honor, and pride. In the Maraniss biography I recall that he states reducing Clemente to statistics is like a chemist explaining the beauty of a painting by merely analyzing the paint. In my opinion he is the patron saint of baseball. I grew up in a home where Spanish was spoken. You have no idea the pride we felt when he spoke in Spanish after the 1971 Series. I was a child when he died. I still remember falling to my knees in utter shock when I heard the announcement on the radio. I was inconsolable for a week; I even vowed to name my first born son after him. Eighteen years later I kept that promise.

My favorite Clemente quotes.
''Any time you have an opportunity to make a difference in this world and you don't, then you are wasting your time on Earth.”

“I want to be remembered as a ballplayer who gave all I had to give.”

[MacDice]

Originally Posted by 71buc

For fans with latin ancestory like myself he is our Jackie Robinson. His ethnicity is as important to who he was as it is to who Robinson was. These two men are more than mere baseball players. Clemente transcends baseball. He embodied grace, compassion, honor, and pride. In the Maraniss biography I recall that he states reducing Clemente to statistics is like a chemist explaining the beauty of a painting by merely analyzing the paint. In my opinion he is the patron saint of baseball. I grew up in a home where Spanish was spoken. You have no idea the pride we felt when he spoke in Spanish after the 1971 Series. I was a child when he died. I still remember falling to my knees in utter shock when I heard the announcement on the radio. I was inconsolable for a week; I even vowed to name my first born son after him. Eighteen years later I kept that promise.

My favorite Clemente quotes.
''Any time you have an opportunity to make a difference in this world and you don't, then you are wasting your time on Earth.”

“I want to be remembered as a ballplayer who gave all I had to give.”

Good post, well put. He was a great source of pride for his native country and he should have been. His true value to humanity however should not be limited to one culture it should be embraced by all. It is a shame that we will never know how big of an effect on society that he would have had should he had been given more time on this planet.

[maniac_73]

Originally Posted by 71buc

For fans with latin ancestory like myself he is our Jackie Robinson. His ethnicity is as important to who he was as it is to who Robinson was. These two men are more than mere baseball players. Clemente transcends baseball. He embodied grace, compassion, honor, and pride. In the Maraniss biography I recall that he states reducing Clemente to statistics is like a chemist explaining the beauty of a painting by merely analyzing the paint. In my opinion he is the patron saint of baseball. I grew up in a home where Spanish was spoken. You have no idea the pride we felt when he spoke in Spanish after the 1971 Series. I was a child when he died. I still remember falling to my knees in utter shock when I heard the announcement on the radio. I was inconsolable for a week; I even vowed to name my first born son after him. Eighteen years later I kept that promise.

My favorite Clemente quotes.
''Any time you have an opportunity to make a difference in this world and you don't, then you are wasting your time on Earth.”

“I want to be remembered as a ballplayer who gave all I had to give.”

Thank-you for sharing that story.

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by 71buc

For fans with latin ancestory like myself he is our Jackie Robinson. His ethnicity is as important to who he was as it is to who Robinson was. These two men are more than mere baseball players. Clemente transcends baseball. He embodied grace, compassion, honor, and pride. In the Maraniss biography I recall that he states reducing Clemente to statistics is like a chemist explaining the beauty of a painting by merely analyzing the paint. In my opinion he is the patron saint of baseball. I grew up in a home where Spanish was spoken. You have no idea the pride we felt when he spoke in Spanish after the 1971 Series. I was a child when he died. I still remember falling to my knees in utter shock when I heard the announcement on the radio. I was inconsolable for a week; I even vowed to name my first born son after him. Eighteen years later I kept that promise.

My favorite Clemente quotes.
''Any time you have an opportunity to make a difference in this world and you don't, then you are wasting your time on Earth.”

“I want to be remembered as a ballplayer who gave all I had to give.”

Mike. I am moved how you are able to show just how much Roberto meant to all Latin people regardless of where they lived, in so few words. Really touching Mike. Thank you so much for sharing. Sincerely, Jimmy

[71buc]

Originally Posted by thekingofclout

Mike. I am moved how you are able to show just how much Roberto meant to all Latin people regardless of where they lived, in so few words. Really touching Mike. Thank you so much for sharing. Sincerely, Jimmy

Thanks Jimmy I pray that the current generation produces a man like Roberto no matter his race or nationality. We need him now more than ever.

[GKreindler]

Really enjoying this thread, dammit.

And now I'm kicking myself for not having any Roberto Clemente painting in any form to work on. Shame on me.

Graig

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by MacDice

Just because I have a slightly difference opinion on your favorite player does not mean the I am "trolling." Without a doubt the world would be a better place if we had more people with the strong moral beliefs that Roberto had. Also why does it mater if he was from Puetro Rico? His outstanding playing ability, strong moral beliefs and countless charity acts have nothing to do with his ethnicity. Judge a man on what he is (or was) not on where he was from.

Not well said