A New Rule concerning PM's- Poll

[wonkaticket]

So I see Ken called daddy this AM huh?

Enough semi nice guy here let’s timeline this one for a second shall we?

• Goldin crawls out of the wood work to announce that he his starting a business. A business that would like to obtain revenue from members of this forum.
  
• Goldin pays for ads so that way he can broadcast to the community, makes sense others pay for that right.
  
• Goldin gets his moment of board time and it doesn’t quite go as he would like.
  
• Goldin has his past (in video not hearsay) brought up by people like myself and others. The reviews are in and they aren’t all glowing with support for Goldin.
  
• Goldin has even more sad stories posted about his past dealings people comment on those Goldin doesn’t like that.
  
• Goldin contacts member via PM (me) to tell me that I have the problem at hand not him and am in the dark and would like to personally talk to me. Of course if I don’t want to take time to speak with him continue to be wrong.
  
• Goldin cries the blues because I felt the need for the community to be aware of the tactics at play, also for being direct and honest not hiding behind PM’s and he said she said crap.

So there we are….while we are discussing things about the forum we should poll I have a few to recommend.

Is it right for any of us to be PM’ed in the first place by advertisers who get their feelings ruffled? Why is being a part of this community now come with the joy of being contacted by quite honestly con men who bilked folks out of cash? If I wanted to talk to Ken Goldins of the world I would have dialed into Shop at Home and bought those gem mint Tiger Woods cards that Ken was so nice to sell at 2k because next week they are selling the same ones for 5k right?

Let me be clear here…we are not pals. I have no interest in getting to know the “real” Ken. No interest in hearing where “I” went wrong on innocent Ken, and Little to no interest in his business venture. Basically 100% no interest in hearing his spin in private form.

Just because he came here and tossed a few hundred bucks to the mod doesn’t make us PM buddies IMO. How about asking why your members need to be bothered by Goldin’s privately for simply voicing an opinion that Ken Goldin’s of the world disagree with?

If Ken Goldin wants to tell me why I have it wrong and why I should forget 1997 Ken Goldin when it comes to the 2012 Ken Goldin he can do so in the public thread for us all to read. I made my points public he can make his counter points public and leave my PM inbox alone unless I reach out to him just my two cents.
John

[doug.goodman]

If both sides of a "private" message want the message private, then so be it. But, if one side deems the message "public", then I have no problem with that.

Doug

[Vol]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

If both sides of a "private" message want the message private, then so be it. But, if one side deems the message "public", then I have no problem with that.

Doug

+1

[npa589]

I don't have a problem with the new rule in principle, which, I suppose is all that matters.

He didn't continue to try to fight us in public, he took to the PM to quell John from making any further comments. I think that the public display of the exact PM was okay because it also alleviated, as Wonka said, the "he said, she said" aspect when people were reading the thread. So, in that sense, I'm okay with it.

Also, it has not been a problem in the past. The no posting of e-mails is a great rule, and they are definitely related to PMs, other than for the fact that it's rather easy to edit an e-mail, even in a screenshot. Also, we don't have access to a moderator to clear up the air, reading the exact e-mail sent from companies like Comcast, Yahoo, or Google. At any time, Leon can just check pms to see what was actually said. That being said, however, people not as respectable as Wonka may began to run with the posting of PMs, and it could become a very frustrating display of cat-fighting and high-school drama. That would be detrimental to the board. That's why I think the rule should be implemented, with this possible asterisk:

How about a compromise, we still contact Leon before posting any PMs, but if it is deemed by Leon to be helpful, by way of saving people money, or helping "clean up the hobby, making people aware of some bad apples", it can be allowed to be posted. Just a thought....

[Leon]

Originally Posted by npa589

I don't have a problem with the new rule in principle, which, I suppose is all that matters. Where I do have a problem with it, however, is in its association to what has been happening in the Goldin thread. I've been on here for about a year now, and don't say too much. I keep my thoughts to myself until, well, it hits this type of nerve, a nerve that seems to be activated when people are being conned, duped into throwing money away out of "promises" of worth.

He didn't continue to try to fight us in public, he took to the PM to quell John from making any further comments. I think that the public display of the exact PM (where it could not be edited, because it was a screenshot of the sent message) possibly saved other people from wasting their money. It also alleviated, as Wonka said, the "he said, she said" aspect when people were reading the thread. So, in that sense, I'm okay with it.

Also, it has not been a problem in the past. The no posting of e-mails is a great rule, and they are definitely related to PMs, other than for the fact that it's rather easy to edit an e-mail, even in a screenshot. Also, we don't have access to a moderator to clear up the air, reading the exact e-mail sent from companies like Comcast, Yahoo, or Google. At any time, Leon can just check pms to see what was actually said. That being said, however, people not as respectable as Wonka may began to run with the posting of PMs, and it could become a very frustrating display of cat-fighting and high-school drama. That would be detrimental to the board. That's why I think the rule should be implemented, with this possible asterisk:

How about a compromise, we still contact Leon before posting any PMs, but if it is deemed by Leon to be helpful, by way of saving people money, or helping "clean up the hobby, making people aware of some bad apples", it can be allowed to be posted. Just a thought....


Quick thoughts about Goldin advertising on here:

The stanses put forth in the thread were not differing, and were not the typical screaming rants of people who had one bad experience with a seller, and are seeking to destroy them. This is clearly a problem that is pervasive to who Ken is as a "businessman", and has been true for 20 years now. I personally wouldn't even accept his money to advertise at this point. It is literally the money of people who may have been put in severe holes after listening to him lie, not simply misrepresent or fudge, but lie about actual sale prices of cards. As far as I know, every other auction that advertises on here is top-notch.

What if they become hindered by the fact that Goldin advertises on here as well? If I know of him from AANtv, and if many others do as well, I am certain that the big auction houses are more than familiar with him.

There is precedence for asking a company not to advertise on this board. As of this moment I have made that request to Ken. I think some time needs to go by, not sure how much and if ever, before his advertising on this board resumes. I am leaving the door open for the future, but for now, no more ads or email blasts concerning Ken and his auctions. I am not making a judgement otherwise. It's just too volatile of a subject and quite honestly, I don't want to deal with it.

As far as the PM's go, it looks like the board is going to be overwhelmingly in favor of keeping them personal. That being said there is an open ended part of the rules, I had to put in there, in order to keep our community safe. It basically says that the moderator can do anything he wants, written in the rules or not, to protect the community. I would use that option if I need to in order to protect our community and the hobby. I think the rule about not allowing PM's to be displayed is going to be a good one. So do most other board members....but if something warrants it then an exception will be made. I also try hard to adhere to the rules myself, as well as enforce them. It's not always easy, or black and white.

What was VERY comforting at the National was all of the folks that came up to me in support of the way the board is moderated. I don't mind saying it made me feel like I was doing a decent job of trying to be as fair as possible, while letting folks express themselves, all the while trying to keep a civil place for us to chat.

[npa589]

Well, I am in complete agreement in the support of how this board is moderated, and I am glad that the Goldin thread was able to have a good outcome to it, in that a beneficial rule was added. Because of how this board has been moderated, I have complete confidence that when the time comes for an "extraordinary" circumstance that may call for a PM to be publicly posted - it will be moderated appropriately!

How about this, maybe you'll never even have to worry about such things! Unrealistic optimism... isn't that what we need on every Monday?

[drc]

In general I've long been against the posting of personal emails and messages, though I'm not sure I'm for a total banning of it. There may be instances where it's relevant (such as in a fraud/forgery case). But whatever is Leon's rule, I'll follow. I've never posted a PM or email, though I'm unaware I've ever received anything interesting or juicy enough to post.

[timzcardz]

So no posting of PMs.

OK

I suppose then from now on we'll live by Goldin Rule!

[batsballsbases]

Originally Posted by Leon

There is precedence for asking a company not to advertise on this board. As of this moment I have made that request to Ken. I think some time needs to go by, not sure how much and if ever, before his advertising on this board resumes. I am leaving the door open for the future, but for now, no more ads or email blasts concerning Ken and his auctions. I am not making a judgement otherwise. It's just too volatile of a subject and quite honestly, I don't want to deal with it.

As far as the PM's go, it looks like the board is going to be overwhelmingly in favor of keeping them personal. That being said there is an open ended part of the rules, I had to put in there, in order to keep our community safe. It basically says that the moderator can do anything he wants, written in the rules or not, to protect the community. I would use that option if I need to in order to protect our community and the hobby. I think the rule about not allowing PM's to be displayed is going to be a good one. So do most other board members....but if something warrants it then an exception will be made. I also try hard to adhere to the rules myself, as well as enforce them. It's not always easy, or black and white.

What was VERY comforting at the National was all of the folks that came up to me in support of the way the board is moderated. I don't mind saying it made me feel like I was doing a decent job of trying to be as fair as possible, while letting folks express themselves, all the while trying to keep a civil place for us to chat.

Leon,
All my kidding aside, I believe you have done the right thing in not letting Ken advertise on the board for now and some time to come. I myself have been very vocal for years about how some of these auction houses have conducted themselves over the years and I believe in this instance if the track record was the way it was then it will continue to be that way now. As was said by someone else If it Quacks like a duck.......... A leopard doesnt change its spots so in my mind weather it be 1997 or 20 years later. QVC, HSN,what ever and now auction house the ground work in my mind was laid all those years ago! As for PMs in all fairness I really could care less if they are posted or not you always have done a great job with being fair and I know you will continue to do so going forward!

[atx840]

Leon, what about people constantly messaging me to sell them my cards, it's quite frustrating...over and over.

[Matthew H]

Ken could have been allowed to advertise if people were reasonable about the level of criticism on his past business practices. Considering the fact that about 100k worth of stuff gets posted in every legendary pickup thread, I know people here are capable of being reasonable...




I agree with keeping private messages private.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

So I see Ken called daddy this AM huh?

Enough semi nice guy here let’s timeline this one for a second shall we?

• Goldin crawls out of the wood work to announce that he his starting a business. A business that would like to obtain revenue from members of this forum.
  
• Goldin pays for ads so that way he can broadcast to the community, makes sense others pay for that right.
  
• Goldin gets his moment of board time and it doesn’t quite go as he would like.
  
• Goldin has his past (in video not hearsay) brought up by people like myself and others. The reviews are in and they aren’t all glowing with support for Goldin.
  
• Goldin has even more sad stories posted about his past dealings people comment on those Goldin doesn’t like that.
  
• Goldin contacts member via PM (me) to tell me that I have the problem at hand not him and am in the dark and would like to personally talk to me. Of course if I don’t want to take time to speak with him continue to be wrong.
  
• Goldin cries the blues because I felt the need for the community to be aware of the tactics at play, also for being direct and honest not hiding behind PM’s and he said she said crap.

So there we are….while we are discussing things about the forum we should poll I have a few to recommend.

Is it right for any of us to be PM’ed in the first place by advertisers who get their feelings ruffled? Why is being a part of this community now come with the joy of being contacted by quite honestly con men who bilked folks out of cash? If I wanted to talk to Ken Goldins of the world I would have dialed into Shop at Home and bought those gem mint Tiger Woods cards that Ken was so nice to sell at 2k because next week they are selling the same ones for 5k right?

Let me be clear here…we are not pals. I have no interest in getting to know the “real” Ken. No interest in hearing where “I” went wrong on innocent Ken, and Little to no interest in his business venture. Basically 100% no interest in hearing his spin in private form.

Just because he came here and tossed a few hundred bucks to the mod doesn’t make us PM buddies IMO. How about asking why your members need to be bothered by Goldin’s privately for simply voicing an opinion that Ken Goldin’s of the world disagree with?

If Ken Goldin wants to tell me why I have it wrong and why I should forget 1997 Ken Goldin when it comes to the 2012 Ken Goldin he can do so in the public thread for us all to read. I made my points public he can make his counter points public and leave my PM inbox alone unless I reach out to him just my two cents.

John

Just like every single other member, you are no different and you are welcome to your opinion. I suggest you learn how to use the ignore feature (though it won't work on me ) ......happy collecting!!

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by Leon

Just like every single other member, you are no different and you are welcome to your opinion. I suggest you learn how to use the ignore feature (though it won't work on me ) ......happy collecting!!

Leon, first PM from Ken didn’t think of the preemptive PM nice play however could get tricky to manage. You mean I can’t ignore you ahhh shucks!

Not rubbing salt in the wounds but think this should also been seen now that this has been brought up to the community… it’s not a rule yet right?

I will post this to show I was cordial to Ken.



As you know I made this known to both you and Ken this AM with my reply to Ken. Which I think was more than cordial considering here’s a guy who is on video over the past years using snake oil if you will to take advantage of less educated collectors. The result giving folks a bad taste of a hobby I love dearly. I have to get a PM from him saying I’m all wrong and I need to be straightened out with the facts reach out to him or be wrong and continue to focus on his past.

Yeah sorry like most folks if every time I have seen you in public you kick somebody in the crotch forgive me if I bring my cup on our first date.

Cheers,

John

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Is it right for any of us to be PM’ed in the first place by advertisers who get their feelings ruffled? Why is being a part of this community now come with the joy of being contacted by quite honestly con men who bilked folks out of cash? If I wanted to talk to Ken Goldins of the world I would have dialed into Shop at Home and bought those gem mint Tiger Woods cards that Ken was so nice to sell at 2k because next week they are selling the same ones for 5k right?

[/U]
John

If I had a dollar for every advertiser, auction house principal or their co-conspirators who called me at home or in the office in an effort to stop me from discussing them on the board....get used to it, John! Very, very bad for the hobby. The worst. Ever.

I say yes and that emails should be allowed also. Kyle Copeland, kyletexas, is prime example. You wanna talk crap about someone and lie about the situation and play it off like there the victim when the pm's and emails say different then you should be allowed to post them if they go public on a forum. If people want to send me hate mail or pm's that's fine because we can banter that way and No need to go public. You want to talk crap on the forum then game on IMO.