Seemingly enhanced/altered Harry Truman signed baseball featured on haulsofshame.com

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by drc

If the PSA LOA (some might call it 'provenance') is just the one LOA from the first sale (and that was reused for the second sale), it would appear PSA did nothing errant. All the restoration and resale would have happened after the fact. And there's no evidence PSA issued a second LOA. In fact, my guess is they didn't.

Sorry, but this does not fit the narrative the OP wishes to convey.

I read the Hauls of Shame article. While rife with innuendo and unrelated red herrings purely meant to embarass, I didn't see a shred of evidence a new LOA was issued since the original.

Incidentally, I continue to see statements implying there will be indictments handed down (wishful thinking) to PSA/DNA in regard to the Mastro case. Do these people realize that the card grading component PSA, is not the same as the autograph authentication division PSA/DNA? Or do they realize that but just throw PSA/DNA into the article to muddy them up?

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

Sorry, but this does not fit the narrative the OP wishes to convey.

I read the Hauls of Shame article. While rife with innuendo and unrelated red herrings purely meant to embarass, I didn't see a shred of evidence a new LOA was issued since the original.

Incidentally, I continue to see statements implying there will be indictments handed down (wishful thinking) to PSA/DNA in regard to the Mastro case. Do these people realize that the card grading component PSA, is not the same as the autograph authentication division PSA/DNA? Or do they realize that but just throw PSA/DNA into the article to muddy them up?

Steve, you must have been reading my mind. You just saved me a lot of typing.

[David Atkatz]

Steve, is there any connection between Autograph Magazine (published by Steve Cyrkin), and Collectors Universe?

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Steve, is there any connection between Autograph Magazine (published by Steve Cyrkin), and Collectors Universe?

no one is home so i will answer.

cyrkin was one of the founder of pcgs, and collectors universe, he invested 10,000 dollars for 10 percent of pcgs, the coin grading company, and ultimate ended up with over a million shares of stock (about 5 percent) in collectors universe stock when it brought in pcgs. He goes out of his way for no one to know this. no one is suppose to know. He wants people to think he is impartial, and in order to blog on autograph magazine live you have to follow the company line or you are out. Thus the PSA defenders who wants to keep their blogging card there and stay in his good graces.

Steve Z. was one of the biggest psa critics (read his old articles) until he had a road to Damascus conversion somehow. But PSA/DNA hasn't changed their stripes one bit along the way. Why are they the best thing since sliced bread now, but back then they were the object of his derision? I don't know.

http://www.pcgs.com/Articles/Detail/3740

http://clct.client.shareholder.com/s...10&CIK=1089143

page 57


http://zipper68.blogspot.com/2004/06/psadna-goof.html

http://zipper68.blogspot.com/2004/06...s-autopen.html

http://www.richardsimonsports.com/barrons.htm

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Steve, is there any connection between Autograph Magazine (published by Steve Cyrkin), and Collectors Universe?

Originally Posted by travrosty

no one is home so i will answer.

cyrkin was one of the founder of pcgs, and collectors universe, he invested 10,000 dollars for 10 percent of pcgs, the coin grading company, and ultimate ended up with over a million shares of stock (about 5 percent) in collectors universe stock when it brought in pcgs. He goes out of his way for no one to know this. no one is suppose to know. He wants people to think he is impartial, and in order to blog on autograph magazine live you have to follow the company line or you are out. Thus the PSA defenders who wants to keep their blogging card there and stay in his good graces.

Steve Z. was one of the biggest psa critics (read his old articles) until he had a road to Damascus conversion somehow. But PSA/DNA hasn't changed their stripes one bit along the way. Why are they the best thing since sliced bread now, but back then they were the object of his derision? I don't know.

Amazing! Thanks Travis! I had no real reason for asking except this: I could never figure out why those two guys will never utter a bad word about PSA. The only other thing the two seem to have in common is blogging for Cyrkin's Autograph Magazine Live. So I wondered if there could be a connection...

Ain't critical thinking wonderful?

[travrosty]

yes, and i give footnotes and examples so they can't say I am making stuff up. They hate that.


The truman ball, according to haulsofshame, was listed by eac galleries as pristine, and "finest example extant"

The meaning of the word pristine is:

original, pure, uncorrupted, untouched, unspoiled.

this is exactly the opposite of what it was.

obviously listing it as pristine was not a "mistake" by a few bumbling people who didnt know sports because they were primarily a historical auction house.


a harry truman signature IS a historical signature.

there is more to this story, there has to be. i find it hard to believe someone would clean up the ball, enhance it and then send it off to an auction house, and not do that to any other pieces. a one-off? unlikely.


but i have never seen any other balls or signatures offered at auction houses or anywhere else listed as "restored", so are they being foisted off on the general public as pristine, and finest examples? looks like a good case for the fbi.

there are a lot of people that want haulsofshame.com to go away. that site is digging too deep in areas that are deemed "off limits" by the old guard who want to keep their power, prestige, and money making abilities the same way they are now. they want the status quo.

Indicting Mastro was looking in the wrong area for these people. the 10 dollar mickey mantles is where we should look, not the petty offenses by this big company or that one. They are supposedly "cleaning up the hobby" so they are entitled to a few infractions if it makes the hobby safer for everyone? because without them, we would have the wild west. Well, guess what, we have the wild west WITH THEM!

We can't even keep up with just the boxing mistakes. It's incredibly unbelievable! Just think about basketball, football where there are no people who come forward and show just how they are handling those sports in the autograph arena. I have had people say, "well, i guess they need a little work on boxing, but they are good at the rest."

but if my specialty and mark's specialty was football instead, then they would just need work on football and they would be great at boxing I suppose.

well, we just happen to expose the sport that we know well. Other sports go unreported but would the results be different?

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Amazing! Thanks Travis! I had no real reason for asking except this: I could never figure out why those two guys will never utter a bad word about PSA. The only other thing the two seem to have in common is blogging for Cyrkin's Autograph Magazine Live. So I wondered if there could be a connection...

Ain't critical thinking wonderful?

If Atkatz is referring to Mr. Zipper and me as the "two guys" then, of course, I can only answer for myself.

You're right, Travis and Atkatz, I will not bash PSA. I've had the same agenda for over eight (8) years now and have never deviated from it. I have my own agenda, and despite the threats, and attempts at intimidation over the past eight years, I have continued without interruption. I would never allow anyone who threatens me or attempts to intimidate me, to stop me from doing what I do.

I have no reason to bash PSA. Why should I bash a company that gets it right well over 95% of the time? If Travis and Atkatz want to bash PSA, that's their right. Neither of you have been censored here, have you? You may have been criticized for your views and opinions, but haven't we all? If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

Getting back to PSA. Honest mistakes are made by human beings. I don't know of one honest authenticator who hasn't made an honest mistake. The mistakes may have been clerical or an honest authentication mistake.

If anyone on Net54 wants to criticize PSA that is their right. But at the same time, the same people who criticize PSA, also flock to PSA to get their items graded or authenticated to receive a higher premium when it comes time to sell.

Why don't we ask Travis why he never bashes Todd Mueller?

Travis, is it because "you have no reason" to bash Todd Mueller? If that's your reason, then I accept that, Travis. I have "no reason" to bash PSA. When "LoveTheMarlins" was exposing some of the forgeries on the now "Dead As Julius Caesar" old ANL site, no one heard a peep from Travis criticizing Todd Mueller. If those same items had been authenticated by PSA, Travis would have been all over it. As a matter of fact, Travis went out his way to defend Todd and the Willie Mays TTM wife-signed autograph that Todd had listed on his auction site as an "authentic Willie Mays signed card." And not a peep from Travis about the two (2) Phil Dorsey signed Roberto Clemente photos that Todd Mueller had listed as "authentic signed Roberto Clemente photograph" or that Walter Johnson signed garbage.

Travis, if you have "no reason" to bash Todd Mueller, then I accept that. But don't criticize me for not bashing PSA because I have "no reason" to also. I have had the same agenda for over eight years. You have your agenda and I have mine.


David once (or still does) owned a "1927 NY Yankees" signed baseball that was certed by JSA. He proudly posted photos of his JSA certed baseball and his own self-proclamation as a "Yankees vintage autograph expert." In addition, David announced his own "Quick Opinion" service on Net54 because of his self-proclaimed expertise on Yankees vintage autographs.

Then David discovered his JSA certed "1927 Yankees" signed baseball was a JF special. I knew it was a JF special when David sent me full-blown photos of this baseball. I am sure that David asked Jodi to confirm that his ball was not authentic. But then David starts ranting against JSA for his ball being bad, but as a self-proclaimed "Yankees vintage autograph expert," how is it that you (David) never discovered it was bad? I was well aware of JF team-signed baseballs, why weren't you? Instead of looking in the mirror, you blame JSA and start ranting against them.

Then David went out and purchased an authentic "1927 Yankees" team-signed baseball. He also informed us that he needed to sell some other items in order to finance his "new" baseball. And guess what. The items he listed on Ebay were either PSA or JSA authenticated. But wait, David, what about your rants against PSA and JSA? Why would you insert PSA/JSA in your title descriptions to promote the fact that they are PSA/JSA authenticated to sell your autographed baseballs, when from the other side of your mouth you're ripping both PSA and JSA?

Richard Simon and I are very good friends; we have opposing views when it comes to PSA. We always agreed to disagree. But we would never disparage each other to get our points across. I would hope that all of us can have that same respectful co-existence here.

The point I am making is that we can all co-exist on a peaceful level here on Net54 without the disparaging remarks, double-standards and hypocrisy.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Instead of looking in the mirror, you blame JSA and start ranting against them.

Chris, does this sound like a rant against JSA? (From thread http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=146088 (1927 Yankees team ball forgery), which I started. Find one post of mine in which I "rant" against JSA regarding this baseball--or one in which I don't take full responsibility for being fooled.

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

I have always been one to admit my mistakes. (I learned as a physics professor that a mistake is a "teachable moment.") One of the centerpieces of my vintage Yankee collection is, indeed, a forgery--one that fooled me, and James Spence as well. It sure is nice work, though. (Maybe I'll consign it to Coach's. )

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

If Atkatz is referring to Mr. Zipper and me as the "two guys" then, of course, I can only answer for myself.

You're right, Travis and Atkatz, I will not bash PSA. I've had the same agenda for over eight (8) years now and have never deviated from it. I have my own agenda, and despite the threats, and attempts at intimidation over the past eight years, I have continued without interruption. I would never allow anyone who threatens me or attempts to intimidate me, to stop me from doing what I do.

I have no reason to bash PSA. Why should I bash a company that gets it right well over 95% of the time? If Travis and Atkatz want to bash PSA, that's their right. Neither of you have been censored here, have you? You may have been criticized for your views and opinions, but haven't we all? If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

Getting back to PSA. Honest mistakes are made by human beings. I don't know of one honest authenticator who hasn't made an honest mistake. The mistakes may have been clerical or an honest authentication mistake.

If anyone on Net54 wants to criticize PSA that is their right. But at the same time, the same people who criticize PSA, also flock to PSA to get their items graded or authenticated to receive a higher premium when it comes time to sell.

Why don't we ask Travis why he never bashes Todd Mueller?

Travis, is it because "you have no reason" to bash Todd Mueller? If that's your reason, then I accept that, Travis. I have "no reason" to bash PSA. When "LoveTheMarlins" was exposing some of the forgeries on the now "Dead As Julius Caesar" old ANL site, no one heard a peep from Travis criticizing Todd Mueller. If those same items had been authenticated by PSA, Travis would have been all over it. As a matter of fact, Travis went out his way to defend Todd and the Willie Mays TTM wife-signed autograph that Todd had listed on his auction site as an "authentic Willie Mays signed card." And not a peep from Travis about the two (2) Phil Dorsey signed Roberto Clemente photos that Todd Mueller had listed as "authentic signed Roberto Clemente photograph" or that Walter Johnson signed garbage.

Travis, if you have "no reason" to bash Todd Mueller, then I accept that. But don't criticize me for not bashing PSA because I have "no reason" to also. I have had the same agenda for over eight years. You have your agenda and I have mine.


David once (or still does) owned a "1927 NY Yankees" signed baseball that was certed by JSA. He proudly posted photos of his JSA certed baseball and his own self-proclamation as a "Yankees vintage autograph expert." In addition, David announced his own "Quick Opinion" service on Net54 because of his self-proclaimed expertise on Yankees vintage autographs.

Then David discovered his JSA certed "1927 Yankees" signed baseball was a JF special. I knew it was a JF special when David sent me full-blown photos of this baseball. I am sure that David asked Jodi to confirm that his ball was not authentic. But then David starts ranting against JSA for his ball being bad, but as a self-proclaimed "Yankees vintage autograph expert," how is it that you (David) never discovered it was bad? I was well aware of JF team-signed baseballs, why weren't you? Instead of looking in the mirror, you blame JSA and start ranting against them.

Then David went out and purchased an authentic "1927 Yankees" team-signed baseball. He also informed us that he needed to sell some other items in order to finance his "new" baseball. And guess what. The items he listed on Ebay were either PSA or JSA authenticated. But wait, David, what about your rants against PSA and JSA? Why would you insert PSA/JSA in your title descriptions to promote the fact that they are PSA/JSA authenticated to sell your autographed baseballs, when from the other side of your mouth you're ripping both PSA and JSA?

Richard Simon and I are very good friends; we have opposing views when it comes to PSA. We always agreed to disagree. But we would never disparage each other to get our points across. I would hope that all of us can have that same respectful co-existence here.

The point I am making is that we can all co-exist on a peaceful level here on Net54 without the disparaging remarks, double-standards and hypocrisy.

firstly, quit lying about the willie mays signed card, you know it's not true. He is a dealer and not a third party authenticator and doesn't authenticate other peoples autographs for money.

secondly, i never mentioned you at all, you flatter yourself.

thirdly, get the company line right, it's only one mistake out of 1000 (.1%), or as John R. says, 1 out of 10,000 (.01%)

5% error rate stinks. and they are the worlds experts? Mueller challenged any authenticator to a contest, winner take all, he got no takers from the worlds experts. I could clean their clock on boxing, why are they the world's boxing experts again?

fourthly, many, many of their errors are not clerical or honest mistakes, they are the product of authenticating too fast, sending the wrong person to authenticate the wrong autograph, conflicts of interest, and just general apathy towards being meticulous and getting it right.

fifthly, did you see the signed boxing glove that was just auctioned off at hugginsandscott.com for 2100 dollars. It had two Marciano signatures on it, and those are unlike any we have any seen, but signed off by joe orlando on a coa. Would you trust his opinion on this piece?

What makes them experts? Can anyone explain that? Mastro pushed for them and pumped up their credentials and that is how they got started, but tell me why they are good?


It is unbelievable, and you can find no criticism of this pathetic Marciano? Quit authenticating boxing, PSA!

[scyrkin]

Originally Posted by travrosty

no one is home so i will answer.

cyrkin was one of the founder of pcgs, and collectors universe, he invested 10,000 dollars for 10 percent of pcgs, the coin grading company, and ultimate ended up with over a million shares of stock (about 5 percent) in collectors universe stock when it brought in pcgs. He goes out of his way for no one to know this. no one is suppose to know. He wants people to think he is impartial, and in order to blog on autograph magazine live you have to follow the company line or you are out. Thus the PSA defenders who wants to keep their blogging card there and stay in his good graces.

Steve Z. was one of the biggest psa critics (read his old articles) until he had a road to Damascus conversion somehow. But PSA/DNA hasn't changed their stripes one bit along the way. Why are they the best thing since sliced bread now, but back then they were the object of his derision? I don't know.

http://www.pcgs.com/Articles/Detail/3740

http://clct.client.shareholder.com/s...10&CIK=1089143

page 57


http://zipper68.blogspot.com/2004/06/psadna-goof.html

http://zipper68.blogspot.com/2004/06...s-autopen.html

http://www.richardsimonsports.com/barrons.htm

Hi Travis,

Just wanted to clarify that I have no ownership or financial interest of any kind in Collectors Universe or any of its subsidiaries, such as PSA or PSA/DNA. Or their competitor, JSA. Further, none of these companies advertise with us or support us in any way. I sold all my stock in the company years ago.

BTW, PCGS, Professional Coin Grading Service, was the original name of the company. It changed its name to Collectors Universe in the mid-90s.

I have not been a manager, employee, consultant or boardmember of the company or any of its subsidiaries since the early 1990s; long before it became CU.

Please provide a detailed apology in each instance where you have published this misinformation about my companies and me, here or on any other site.

Thanks,

Steve Cyrkin

[scyrkin]

Originally Posted by scyrkin

Hi Travis,

Just wanted to clarify that I have no ownership or financial interest of any kind in Collectors Universe or any of its subsidiaries, such as PSA or PSA/DNA. Or their competitor, JSA. Further, none of these companies advertise with us or support us in any way. I sold all my stock in the company years ago.

BTW, PCGS, Professional Coin Grading Service, was the original name of the company. It changed its name to Collectors Universe in the mid-90s.

I have not been a manager, employee, consultant or boardmember of the company or any of its subsidiaries since the early 1990s; long before it became CU.

Please provide a detailed apology in each instance where you have published this misinformation about my companies and me, here or on any other site.

Thanks,

Steve Cyrkin

Make that here AND on any other site, not "or".

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by scyrkin

Make that here AND on any other site, not "or".

this is what is stated about you, it is true.

cyrkin was one of the founder of pcgs, and collectors universe, he invested 10,000 dollars for 10 percent of pcgs, the coin grading company, and ultimate ended up with over a million shares of stock (about 5 percent) in collectors universe stock when it brought in pcgs.

i provided links to prove it. tell me what i said here that is not true.