Heritage Live Auction -- Black Swamp debacle

[calvindog]

I think it was 27 in one set, the Wagner in another lot and then 9 in the last lot.

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I think it was 27 in one set, the Wagner in another lot and then 9 in the last lot.

Ok, forgot about the green lot... Anyone know what that went for?

[iggyman]

If one is to believe the internet. Initial press releases had the Black Swamp E98 near set estimated at $500,000. As per an associated press article....

"The best of the bunch -- 37 cards -- are expected to bring a total of $500,000 when they are sold at auction in August during the National Sports Collectors Convention in Baltimore. There are about 700 cards in all that could be worth up to $3 million, experts say. They include such legends as Christy Mathewson and Connie Mack."


I didn't see any press releases from Heritage promising a million for the E98 Wagner PSA 10 card.

"Recently discovered in a Defiance, Ohio house attic with over 700 other well-preserved 1910 era E98 series baseball cards, this card of Hall of Fame player Honus ("Hans") Wagner has been certified PSA Gem Mint 10 and is expected to sell for $200,000 or more in an auction conducted by Heritage Auctions on August 2, 2012."



Heritage predicted a 3 million dollar windfall for the entire enchilada. They probably won't make it to the three million dollar mark, but with a bunch more cards to sell......................well, I will go out on a limb and say that the consignors are happy people at the moment and the grand kids college trust fund is saved (as long as it's not for an ivy league school.......have you seen the tuition rates?......wicked!).



Lovely Day.

[benjulmag]

So now Heritage is being criticized for being transparent and upfront?! Talk about being between a rock and a hard place...I can only imagine the blistering comments on this board had they chosen to sell the cards piecemeal. In addition, EVEN IF they wanted to sell them piecemeal, how then were they supposed to respond to the inevitable question an experienced collector was apt to ask as to whether there were more cards in the find? Lie? If not, then wouldn't they have ended up right back to where they were by disclosing all material info at the start?

As to the point that they had no legal obligation to disclose the extent of the find, perhaps so. But isn't that why business ethics is taught in business school...to encourage businesses to take the business high road, even at the expense of SHORT-TERM profits?

I for one applaud both Heritage and the family that consigned the cards for the manner in which they have offered to the market this spectacular find.

[Griffins]

well said Corey.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

But isn't that why business ethics is taught in business school...to encourage businesses to take the business high road, even at the expense of SHORT-TERM profits?

So it's ok for Heritage and its employees to bid on lots against other bidders but not ok for them to seek to legally maximize the profits made for their consigners? Do they teach that in business school too?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Is it ethical to withhold material information?

[calvindog]

Depends what is material in this case. I don't think it's ethical or legal to do so.

[Peter_Spaeth]

To Corey's point, I'm not so sure there is no legal duty to disclose. I know material information that directly affects the value of the card and that is not otherwise knowable -- that I have 25 more in the pipeline. It's just as much fraud to omit a material fact as to misrepresent a fact. Why isn't that fraud? At the very least, it's dubious ethically.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by calvindog

So it's ok for Heritage and its employees to : on lots against other bidders but not ok for them to seek to legally maximize the profits made for their consigners? Do they teach that in business school too?

All the more reason to applaud them for taking the high road with this find. Seems to me hypocritical to blast them for it.

As to Peter's point that they might have had a legal duty to disclose it as it was material info as to value of the cards and was in their exclusive possession, at the very least I don't see how an auction house can be criticized for taking that as a credible legal argument.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

All the more reason to applaud them for taking the high road with this find. Seems to me hypocritical to blast them for it.

As to Peter's point that they might have had a legal duty to disclose it as it was material info as to value of the cards and was in their exclusive possession, at the very least I don't see how an auction house can be criticized for regarding that as a credible legal argument.

Honestly, I'd love to hear their thinking (if there was any) on the determination of whether or not to grade the whole find at once. Surely they had to know it would lower the prices realized of the consignment. I would find it dubious that the decision to grade them all at once was rooted solely in a legal determination and not, at least in part, to the publicity garnered from the "Black Swamp Find."

[CobbSpikedMe]

Can someone please help me with this.

The family had 700 high grade cards. Auctioned off 37 of them for over $500K. And they still have 640+ cards left. Is this correct?

I'd be pretty stinking ecstatic if I were them if this is the case.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

But isn't that why business ethics is taught in business school...

Haha - I got my MBA before business started pretending to have ethics so I'll have to take a guess as to what you're talking about:

Business Ethics = maximizing profit without doing anything so illegal that you can't get out of it.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Haha - I got my MBA before business started pretending to have ethics so I'll have to take a guess as to what you're talking about:

Business Ethics = maximizing profit without doing anything so illegal that you can't get out of it.

LOL basically. I like the pipe dream, however, that business ethics and baseball card auction houses are not mutually exclusive. Considering Corey's history he's clearly an optimist.