OT: Colorado shooting

[Matthew H]

Peter, schitzophrenia is not a "get out of jail free card". From what I've heard, the psych wards within the prison system is much worse then the general population. The people in there can be unstable and dangerous.

Your hypothetical is very possible and is something that I deal with on a frequent basis. Not only from "taking a vaction from meds" but also from the meds not having the same effect over time, also over medicating.

What are we supposed to do? The average schitzophrenic doesn't end up mass murdering... Most end up living a VERY difficult life being seriously uncomfortable in their own skin. Not having a normal functioning brain is a hard way to wake up in the morning. It's also very hard on the families of them.

It's very frustrating to me that only mass murder will very slightly raise awareness, and only for a short period of time. It doesn't matter what the jury decides. This guy will never see the light of day, regardless of whether or not they accept an illness plea.

[packs]

I've always been of the opinion that a rational person pleads insanity and an insane person is not aware they're insane.

[Peter_Spaeth]

But Matt, suppose, and maybe it's a hypothetical that doesn't exist, but suppose that a schizophrenic would be normal or at least functional so long as they take meds. What would be the point of confining them indefinitely for a crime they committed while off the meds?

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

But Matt, suppose, and maybe it's a hypothetical that doesn't exist, but suppose that a schizophrenic would be normal or at least functional so long as they take meds. What would be the point of confining them indefinitely for a crime they committed while off the meds?

Peter, there are many levels of schitzophrenia ranging from mild to the very extreme. Once it's known what a particular individual is capable of, like in this case, or any case involving murder, it's too risky to trust any medication to keep the individual stable enough for reintegration into society, IMO.

I haven't heard of any case where someone snapped, killed somebody, was given medication, and sent home.

It's really up to families, of the mentally ill, to make sure things are ok. For me it's been a 15 year battle that I expect to never end. I'd love to see more funding, better research, and better understanding.

Scott - thanks for you posts too.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Matt, do you think it's likely Holmes' family, or psychiatrist, had some clue about just how disturbed he may have been?

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Matt, do you think it's likely Holmes' family, or psychiatrist, had some clue about just how disturbed he may have been?

Imagine someone, a close family member, suddenly changing into a completely different person, almost like they were possessed. It's really hard to ignore, unless you're trying really hard.

It's now known that he was saw a psychiatrist, confidentiality hides the details for now. A psychiatrist can't prescribe medication but should have referred him to a psychologist.

Schizophrenia can be difficult for a family to come to terms... But what he did/planned doesn't happen overnight. I think there's plenty of blame to go around.

I feel so bad for those kids and adults that died. It's important for parents to know this is a possibility and to be aware. No one else will do it; however, we'll see what the psych knew.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by Matthew H

Imagine someone, a close family member, suddenly changing into a completely different person, almost like they were possessed. It's really hard to ignore, unless you're trying really hard.

It's now known that he was saw a psychologist, confidentiality hides the details for now. A psychologist can't prescribe medication but should have referred him to a psychiatrist.

Schizophrenia can be difficult for a family to come to terms... But what he did/planned doesn't happen overnight. I think there's plenty of blame to go around.

I feel so bad for those kids and adults that died. It's important for parents to know this is a possibility and to be aware. No one else will do it; however, we'll see what the psych knew.

A psychologist can prescribe meds...

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Matthew H

Imagine someone, a close family member, suddenly changing into a completely different person, almost like they were possessed. It's really hard to ignore, unless you're trying really hard.

It's now known that he was saw a psychiatrist, confidentiality hides the details for now. A psychiatrist can't prescribe medication but should have referred him to a psychologist.

Schizophrenia can be difficult for a family to come to terms... But what he did/planned doesn't happen overnight. I think there's plenty of blame to go around.

I feel so bad for those kids and adults that died. It's important for parents to know this is a possibility and to be aware. No one else will do it; however, we'll see what the psych knew.

Since this thread has over 5,000 hits, and many young men in their 20's read it, as well as parents of children that age...I'll take advantage and post once more.

No parent wants to admit their child has a mental illness, so they will write off the odd behavior to other things - 'mental illness' will never even cross their minds. Both schizophrenia and bipolar disorder keep the person from having the insight to realize they are ill. Given these unfortunate facts, no one will be prepared. Sorry, but that's just the way it is. This affects MANY people; however, despite the fact that many of your friends have already dealt with it, you won't even be aware of the fact, and if you are - they will spare you the details. I was totally surprised at how many people I know either have it, have a child who has it, or a spouse who has it.

Bottom line - there is usually no one to blame: not for ignorance, for incorrect responses, for anything. It's just a tough situation. The best you can do if it hits your family, is to call someone (or PM someone) who has been through it. They will all help you.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by packs

I've always been of the opinion that a rational person pleads insanity and an insane person is not aware they're insane.

You nailed it.

I've said this in several posts, but it bears repeating: Schizophrenia and bipolar disorder affect the part of the brain that controls 'insight'. This means that schizophrenics NEVER know that they are schizophrenic. They have to be talked into taking meds for reasons other than: you are schizophrenic. People with bipolar disorder do not have insight during mania, but usually (but not always) have insight when they come down.

It's a tough concept to wrap your brain around - unfortunately, many psychiatrists can't do it either.

Peter - the 'medical vacation' you refer to is VERY common with schizophrenics; in fact, almost all take such a vacation regularly. It's a tough illness to deal with, but it's still mental illness.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Matthew H

Peter, schitzophrenia is not a "get out of jail free card". From what I've heard, the psych wards within the prison system is much worse then the general population. The people in there can be unstable and dangerous.

Your hypothetical is very possible and is something that I deal with on a frequent basis. Not only from "taking a vaction from meds" but also from the meds not having the same effect over time, also over medicating.

What are we supposed to do? The average schitzophrenic doesn't end up mass murdering... Most end up living a VERY difficult life being seriously uncomfortable in their own skin. Not having a normal functioning brain is a hard way to wake up in the morning. It's also very hard on the families of them.

It's very frustrating to me that only mass murder will very slightly raise awareness, and only for a short period of time. It doesn't matter what the jury decides. This guy will never see the light of day, regardless of whether or not they accept an illness plea.

Matt - thanks for this post.