Will the owner re-slab the Wagner?

[bsuttonosu]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Perhaps now that the truth is going to be told 'officially', Mastro will produce a small box containing the Wagner trimmings. If he doesn't , someone will.

If Topps gets ahold of them they'll probably put them in a 2013 Topps relic card. I can just see a Wagner Cuts Relic being the big pull next year.

[Hot Springs Bathers]

Who bought the card?

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by Hot Springs Bathers

Who bought the card?

The owner of the Arizona Diamondbacks

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

The owner of the Arizona Diamondbacks

That is correct. According to this article, the Wagner was to be put on display at Cooperstown and then at the D-Back's ballpark.

http://www.psacard.com/articles/arti...id=6852&type=1

Based on the FBI's indictment, it is therefore implied that the label on the holder is false by PSA's standards. In my opinion the Wagner needs to be reholdered as "AUTH", and PSA needs to be proactive in fixing it and compensating the owner for the monetary loss incurred. The card should not continue to be put on public display as a PSA 8 card in my opinion.

Also if the owner ever plans to sell the Wagner, he really needs to get the grade corrected otherwise he could be setting himself up for making a fraudulent sale unless he discloses the alteration in the sale, but that wouldn't make sense since the owner, not PSA would take the potential financial loss on the sale.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

...
In my opinion the Wagner needs to be reholdered as "AUTH", and PSA needs to be proactive in fixing it and compensating the owner for the monetary loss incurred. The card should not continue to be put on public display as a PSA 8 card in my opinion.

Also if the owner ever plans to sell the Wagner, he really needs to get the grade corrected otherwise he could be setting himself up for making a fraudulent sale unless he discloses the alteration in the sale, but that wouldn't make sense since the owner, not PSA would take the potential financial loss on the sale.

I don't see how PSA can be ordered to compensate the current owner for monetary loss, when he hasn't yet lost any money, and there's really no way with a 1-of-a-kind item like this, that you can assume he would lose money if he sold it. But I wouldn't be too surprised if he pursues some sort of settlement with PSA, leaving the card holdered as-is.

Everyone who bought it, or was a serious player, knew it was trimmed, and that fact didn't seem to affect value. Perhaps we should assume that it is only selling for as LOW as it has been, because everyone knew it was trimmed. If it had been a legit card, maybe it would sell for double...triple what it has (I don't really believe this, but it's as valid as assuming the value will drop to some unknown number if it's 'officially' deemed to be trimmed).

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by Runscott

I don't see how PSA can be ordered to compensate the current owner for monetary loss, when he hasn't yet lost any money, and there's really no way with a 1-of-a-kind item like this, that you can assume he would lose money if he sold it. But I wouldn't be too surprised if he pursues some sort of settlement with PSA, leaving the card holdered as-is.

Everyone who bought it, or was a serious player, knew it was trimmed, and that fact didn't seem to affect value. Perhaps we should assume that it is only selling for as LOW as it has been, because everyone knew it was trimmed. If it had been a legit card, maybe it would sell for double...triple what it has (I don't really believe this, but it's as valid as assuming the value will drop to some unknown number if it's 'officially' deemed to be trimmed).

You make some interesting points. First off, PSA guarantees their grades, so they have to honor that. See below:

http://www.psacard.com/about/financial_guarantee.chtml

As for buyer, to claim, "[Kendrick] knew it was trimmed" is a bit overstated. It's a safe bet he was aware of the rumors, but to say he knew the card was trimmed is a bit of a reach and to compound the problem can PSA prove that? Even if PSA argued that "Everyone in the hobby knew the Wagner was trimmed", such an argument would be a self-incriminating, public relations nightmare and would contradict what they've published about the card for the past two decades.

It's going to be real interesting how all of this plays out.

[RUSH2112]

I am no lawyer but the card will likely be presented as evidence in a trial, if there is a trial, and re-grading at this point would be useless and maybe against the law. The card could very well be in the hands of authorities right now. A prosecutor is going to want to present the actual card and slab as it was when it changed hands.

Ohio law 2921.12 Tampering with evidence.

(A) No person, knowing that an official proceeding or investigation is in progress, or is about to be or likely to be instituted, shall do any of the following:

(1) Alter, destroy, conceal, or remove any record, document, or thing, with purpose to impair its value or availability as evidence in such proceeding or investigation;

(2) Make, present, or use any record, document, or thing, knowing it to be false and with purpose to mislead a public official who is or may be engaged in such proceeding or investigation, or with purpose to corrupt the outcome of any such proceeding or investigation.

(B) Whoever violates this section is guilty of tampering with evidence, a felony of the third degree.

Effective Date: 01-01-1974

[T206DK]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

The owner of the Arizona Diamondbacks

I wonder what all the past owners are thinking right now.....or if they even care

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by T206DK

I wonder what all the past owners are thinking right now.....or if they even care

My guess: "I can't believe some of these guys on Net54 just realized my old Wagner was trimmed."

[jefferyepayne]

I hope the value doesn't change at all and it completely wrecks the entire grading system. We need to get back to a time when a card's inherent aesthetics is considered in its price, not just the number on a slab.

jeff

[drc]

I think the owner doesn't get compensation if he believed it was trimmed before he bought it-- irrelevant to what the label says. And I assume most to all recent buyers were knowledgeable about the card. Many hobbyists believing the card is trimmed has been common knowledge for quite a few years to Pre-War collectors and dealers. I don't know, but would guess recent owners purchased the card aware of the prevailing theories it is trimmed.

Originally Posted by jefferyepayne

I hope the value doesn't change at all and it completely wrecks the entire grading system. We need to get back to a time when a card's inherent aesthetics is considered in its price, not just the number on a slab.

jeff

Only PSA. I think a lot of us have been waiting to watch them burn for a while. I have at least

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Pup6913

Only PSA. I think a lot of us have been waiting to watch them burn for a while. I have at least

Don't you mean "melt"?

[SetBuilder]

Ken Kendrick could crack the slab, urinate on the card, re-slab it with duct tape, and the card would still be worth 7 figures.

[bbcard1]

I wouldn't know why it would be a consideration. Isn't the rule at hand for those who slab, resubmit until you get a grade your are happy with? Can't imagine it would do better.