OT: Colorado shooting

[zljones]

The big problem in our country is that people and the media want to dig into the psychology of these killers, not only that there is analysis in detail on the news and newspapers and people talking about the killer and what made him tick and his private life. Everyone wants to know what he was like, What are his interests? What is his mental illness? Why did he kill so many with out remorse?
Because our society showers so much attention on these killers, then other sickos will kill as well because they want to be heard. These sickos like to have their faces on the news, they like people to want to learn about them. They crave the attention. These are more than likely angry individuals that want to lash out and show the world what they are all about. They lead insignificant lives and are starving for attention. Sadly our society keeps on feeding into this stuff and keeps wanting to learn more about it. If we show eagerness that we want to learn about these killers, more of them will emerge to take innocent lives. I for one have no interest on what made this guy shoot everyone, I just want to see him brought to justice. If we as a society did not pay so much attention to all these sick killers, then maybe there would be less situations like this.
There is a reason why many University Officials do not want to talk about this and it's because they don't want to feed the fire. Ever since our society has paid attention to serial killers and shooters, there has been a rise in these type of killings.

[packs]

Been hearing a lot of talk about gun control. I don't think it would have impacted what happened. The guy bought all of his weapons legally and had no criminal history at all. Even with the strictest gun control laws, he still would have been able to purchase the weapons.

Bottom line is if people are going to kill other people the law isn't standing in their way. Murder is illegal and it happens every day. You can't control people with rules.

[bmarlowe1]

Originally Posted by packs

Been hearing a lot of talk about gun control. I don't think it would have impacted what happened. The guy bought all of his weapons legally and had no criminal history at all. Even with the strictest gun control laws, he still would have been able to purchase the weapons....

If a fully automatic AR-15 had been as easily obtained, don't you think he would have obtained and used it? The restrictions on fully automatic weapons while not perfect, are effective. Their use by criminals is relatively uncommon. Why must we always assume that other restrictions would not be effective?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by bmarlowe1

The restrictions on fully automatic weapons while not perfect, are effective.

You can take many semi-automatic rifles (including the AR-15) and convert them to fully automatic with minimal effort. Just Google it.

[bmarlowe1]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

You can take many semi-automatic rifles (including the AR-15) and convert them to fully automatic with minimal effort. Just Google it.

So - how do you explain the extremely low rate of murder by machine gun?

[packs]

You are avoiding the larger issue at play which is the motivation a person has to kill people regardless of their weapon of choice. A semi-automatic rifle fired the shots. But a person fired the gun. It could have been that gun or any other gun.

[bmarlowe1]

Originally Posted by packs

You are avoiding the larger issue at play which is the motivation a person has to kill people regardless of their weapon of choice. A semi-automatic rifle fired the shots. But a person fired the gun. It could have been that gun or any other gun.

No I'm not, but you are avoiding my question - that's fine, you aren't required to answer. As far as I know, threads aren't restricted to a single issue.

As to mental health, very important and there have been interesting posts by knowledgeable people. That doesn't mean that the means used is not an issue worthy of discussion. Why must one exclude the other?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by packs

You are avoiding the larger issue at play which is the motivation a person has to kill people regardless of their weapon of choice. A semi-automatic rifle fired the shots. But a person fired the gun. It could have been that gun or any other gun.

Heck, it could even been a blow gun with poison tip darts. I tried to make the same argument. He didn't get it.

[teetwoohsix]

My condolences to the victims and their families, this is a senseless tragedy that no human being should ever have to experience.

God Bless America. Guns now, free speech later?

Sincerely, Clayton

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by zljones

The big problem in our country is that people and the media want to dig into the psychology of these killers, not only that there is analysis in detail on the news and newspapers and people talking about the killer and what made him tick and his private life. Everyone wants to know what he was like, What are his interests? What is his mental illness? Why did he kill so many with out remorse?
Because our society showers so much attention on these killers, then other sickos will kill as well because they want to be heard. These sickos like to have their faces on the news, they like people to want to learn about them. They crave the attention. These are more than likely angry individuals that want to lash out and show the world what they are all about. They lead insignificant lives and are starving for attention. Sadly our society keeps on feeding into this stuff and keeps wanting to learn more about it. If we show eagerness that we want to learn about these killers, more of them will emerge to take innocent lives. I for one have no interest on what made this guy shoot everyone, I just want to see him brought to justice. If we as a society did not pay so much attention to all these sick killers, then maybe there would be less situations like this.
There is a reason why many University Officials do not want to talk about this and it's because they don't want to feed the fire. Ever since our society has paid attention to serial killers and shooters, there has been a rise in these type of killings.

Wow, now I finally understand. Thanks Zack!

Anyone want to form a posse?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Wow, now I finally understand. Thanks Zack!

Anyone want to form a posse?

Scott,

I have a question for you. How were the mentally ill treated say 100 years ago? In other words, if a person was diagnosed with a mental condition what was done with them?

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Scott,

I have a question for you. How were the mentally ill treated say 100 years ago? In other words, if a person was diagnosed with a mental condition what was done with them?

We have made great strides. At what point do you think it should have stopped? 100 years ago, perhaps?

Edited to add: I don't read the Marietta Daily Journal, and I'm not sure why I'm reading the posts in this thread. I'll bow out now and let you guys go look for rope.

I've exchanged a few constructive PM's regarding this subject - if anyone else has anything useful to say about this, please feel free to PM me.

[Frank A]

We don't need a posse, just a rope.

[Runscott]

By the way, Zack, I know someone who is in their early '20s and bipolar with schizoaffective disorder. Before his first manic break, it's true that he had drug problems, but he was not hateful or particularly angry. Now he is very angry and until recently hospitalized, was carrying a gun and threatening to kill people (while in a manic episode). No one who knows him ... now, with his new manic mind .... has any doubt that he would have carried out the threats. He's currently hospitalized, finally taking medication voluntarily, and doing very well. He didn't hurt anyone. This only occurred because he had a family that went above and beyond what many are capable of.

If more people asked questions about mental illness, then awareness might rise ,and as a result, funding. That leads to more hospital beds, more psychiatrists per patient, less inappropriate drugs administered simply because of lobbying, quicker identification by the public of mental illness symptoms....and fewer manic or psychotic episodes that result in harm to others. Wouldn't that be a good thing? I think the people related to the five who were killed at Cafe Racer in Seattle, by a mentally ill man whose parents had unsuccessfully sought treatment for for years, would agree with me.

If the person I mentioned in the first paragraph had not been hospitalized, and had killed a few people, I WOULD NOT have been looking for a death penalty for him. I would have been horrified that, while out of his mind, he had carried out actions that he would not have done otherwise.

If Ian Stawicki had gotten the help he needed, I doubt those people at Cafe Racer would have been killed. But who cares? Murder is murder - let God sort out his own.

Now, back to our regularly-scheduled program from the mountains of Idaho.

[zljones]

Originally Posted by Runscott

By the way, Zack, I know someone who is in their early '20s and bipolar with schizoaffective disorder. Before his first manic break, it's true that he had drug problems, but he was not hateful or particularly angry. Now he is very angry and until recently hospitalized, was carrying a gun and threatening to kill people (while in a manic episode). No one who knows him ... now, with his new manic mind .... has any doubt that he would have carried out the threats. He's currently hospitalized, finally taking medication voluntarily, and doing very well. He didn't hurt anyone. This only occurred because he had a family that went above and beyond what many are capable of.

If more people asked questions about mental illness, then awareness might rise ,and as a result, funding. That leads to more hospital beds, more psychiatrists per patient, less inappropriate drugs administered simply because of lobbying, quicker identification by the public of mental illness symptoms....and fewer manic or psychotic episodes that result in harm to others. Wouldn't that be a good thing? I think the people related to the five who were killed at Cafe Racer in Seattle, by a mentally ill man whose parents had unsuccessfully sought treatment for for years, would agree with me.

If the person I mentioned in the first paragraph had not been hospitalized, and had killed a few people, I WOULD NOT have been looking for a death penalty for him. I would have been horrified that, while out of his mind, he had carried out actions that he would not have done otherwise.

If Ian Stawicki had gotten the help he needed, I doubt those people at Cafe Racer would have been killed. But who cares? Murder is murder - let God sort out his own.

Now, back to our regularly-scheduled program from the mountains of Idaho.

This is not what I meant. You are taking things way out of proportion. I simply said there is too much media attention, and these guys the usually do this stuff are not mentally ill. How often do they get an insanity plea? Almost never. My problem is that there is too much media attention on this. How will the media and causing widespread panic help us understand mental illness, especially if many of these killer are not mentally ill at all. Dahmer, Gacy were all never diagnosed with disorders. You are acting like I have no compasion for the mentally ill. I just have no compassion for those who kill for the hell of it. Is this guy one of them, I do not know yet. But tons of media exposure to it and our society in a state of fear is ridiculous.

[Frank A]

I have guns with 30 round magazines. So what? I don't go around shooting at people. This guy was a nut case, as are all who would kill another human being except in time of war. No sane person would shoot another. All killers are nuts. As has been said a million times, if it wasn't a gun it would have been some other way this guy would have done it. Why do I have guns with such firepower? Because the world is in big trouble and it's going to get a hell of a lot worse. The day will come in this country as all others that I may be happy to have them. I hope I'm wrong, for I sure as hell don"t want to have to use them for such a purpose. But no one should have the right to take them from me. They are there for protection if needed. Frank

[zljones]

Originally Posted by Frank A

I have guns with 30 round magazines. So what? I don't go around shooting at people. This guy was a nut case, as are all who would kill another human being except in time of war. No sane person would shoot another. All killers are nuts. As has been said a million times, if it wasn't a gun it would have been some other way this guy would have done it. Why do I have guns with such firepower? Because the world is in big trouble and it's going to get a hell of a lot worse. The day will come in this country as all others that I may be happy to have them. I hope I'm wrong, for I sure as hell don"t want to have to use them for such a purpose. But no one should have the right to take them from me. They are there for protection if needed. Frank

+1 proud gun owner here too

[bmarlowe1]

Originally Posted by Frank A

I have guns with 30 round magazines. So what? I don't go around shooting at people. This guy was a nut case, as are all who would kill another human being except in time of war. No sane person would shoot another. All killers are nuts. As has been said a million times, if it wasn't a gun it would have been some other way this guy would have done it. Why do I have guns with such firepower? Because the world is in big trouble and it's going to get a hell of a lot worse. The day will come in this country as all others that I may be happy to have them. I hope I'm wrong, for I sure as hell don"t want to have to use them for such a purpose. But no one should have the right to take them from me. They are there for protection if needed. Frank

Where would you draw the line on what you should be allowed to possess?

[Peter_Spaeth]

How many kids die each year from accidental gunshots? Just curious.