W574 ...29 is an awful funny number

[Leon]

I don't know Brian but as we do know the W574s can come with some of the largest borders, and weirdest cuts, of any pre-war cards. I can't imagine the number 29 being the way any company would physically make and distribute a set. Personally I do think they were a strip set just from the characteristics I have seen on them.

[nolemmings]

I've wondered that too, what with 29 being a prime number. I don't know enough about the set and don't follow it closely enough to guess which card might have been double printed. Maybe there was a card pulled from production and the space on the sheet/strip was left blank or was replaced with a header card of some kind?

[brianp-beme]

Good theories Todd and Leon. It is interesting that not only do these cards only depict American Leaguers, but that representatives from two American League teams are completely absent: the Yankees and the Senators. Since the team distribution lines up like this:

White Sox - 9
Tigers - 5
Indians - 5
Browns - 5
Athletics - 3
Red Sox - 2

Perhaps the original issue was two strips of ten, including the Tigers, Indians and Browns, and perhaps 5 of the White Sox. Then another strip was added, with one holdover from the original group double-printed, and the Athletics and Red Sox and the rest of the White Sox.

Another thought. Who was the American League team in the World Series the year they were issued?

Brian

[leftygrove10]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Who was the American League team in the World Series the year they were issued?

In 1933, the New York Giants beat the Washington Senators in five games.

[leftygrove10]

In case it matters (and it very well might), the Yankees played the Cubs in the 1932 World Series.

[Tom S.]

With the Midwestern teams having the greatest number of cards in ths set, and with the White Sox being represented the most (9), would it be plausible that this set was produced in Chicago?

Many of the pictures of players from other teams appear to have been taken in old Comiskey park as well, which might support this theory.

After looking at the 1933 home schedule for the White Sox, I noticed something peculiar too. Here is the order of visiting teams to Chicago, and dates (with their corresponding number of W574 cards in parentheses):

St. Louis Browns 4/19-21 (5)
Cleveland Indians 4/22-24 (5)
Detroit Tigers 4/26-27 (5)
Philadelphia Athletics 5/4 (3)
Boston Red Sox 5/7 (2)
New York Yankees 5/8-10 (0)
Washington Senators 5/13-14 (0)

Based on this information, do you think that it could be possible that these cards might have been given away at the ballpark as promotions?

[Leon]

In thinking more about this I am not so sure on the strip hypothesis and would respectfully open it back up to debate. My main reasoning was based on odd cuts and weird, big borders. But I haven't ever seen a strip of these (though one or some, could exist). On other strip cards, most series, we have seen strips. If they were issued as strips you would think we would see at least a few uncut ones? I guess we also need to look into how/why Burdick classified them the way he did.....Just thinkin' out loud.....

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Tom S.

With the Midwestern teams having the greatest number of cards in ths set, and with the White Sox being represented the most (9), would it be plausible that this set was produced in Chicago?

Many of the pictures of players from other teams appear to have been taken in old Comiskey park as well, which might support this theory.

After looking at the 1933 home schedule for the White Sox, I noticed something peculiar too. Here is the order of visiting teams to Chicago, and dates (with their corresponding number of W574 cards in parentheses):

St. Louis Browns 4/19-21 (5)
Cleveland Indians 4/22-24 (5)
Detroit Tigers 4/26-27 (5)
Philadelphia Athletics 5/4 (3)
Boston Red Sox 5/7 (2)
New York Yankees 5/8-10 (0)
Washington Senators 5/13-14 (0)

Based on this information, do you think that it could be possible that these cards might have been given away at the ballpark as promotions?

Tom...great research. I assumed that these were probably distributed in the Chicago area, but I had neglected to consider that these might be a ballpark giveaway. Are the dates you give for the first two homestands? Did the White Sox have away games on 5/5-5/6 and 5/8-5/9?

While you were checking that, I was checking the careers of the players depicted, and what I found dovetails nicely with your theory. There are four players in the set that were former members of the White Sox. They are:

Chalmer Cissell - Indians (traded from White Sox in April 1932)
Irving Hadley - Browns (traded from White Sox in April 1932)
Willie Kamm - Indians (was with the White Sox in 1931)
Carl Reynolds - Browns (was with the White Sox in 1931)

It might be natural to assume that these players were included because of their past association with the team, and if these were indeed distributed at the ballpark, it also makes sense why they were included, as these were probably passed out when their present team came into town (the Browns and Indians were the first two series that Tom listed for the season).

Also, 29 would not be an abnormal amount for the set if these were issued over time as a long term promotion...it is quite possible that the printing sheets had a single player or just a few. I think that Leon is correct in reassessing how they were produced. To me it seems less likely that they came in strip form.

Because of the team designations on the card and consulting the careers of the players, one can conclude that these were indeed most likely a 1933 issue, as there are several trades that occured in 1932 that on the cards are likewise updated to indicate the new team. Two of these traded players, Fred Marberry and Carl Reynolds, were both traded to the Tigers and Brown, respectively, on December 14th of 1932, and there cards correctly identify their 1933 team. The photos in general for these and other players are generally outdated (for example Jimmie Dykes is shown with an Athletics uniform, which he was traded from on 9/23/32, and Fred Marberry is shown with a Washington uniform). However, Al Simmons is shown with a White Sox uniform, even though he was traded to the team on 9/28/1932. I guess he was a big enough star for the producers to scramble to make sure that his photo depicted him clearly wearing his new team's uniform.

My guess is that this promotion either was supposed to include the later arriving Yankees and Senators, but something (printing issues, costs?) halted production, or that having a giveaway for the Yankees or Senators (who eventually made it to the World Series in 1933--thanks Brad) wasn't considered necessary.

Wow, it was fun coming up with all these theories...thanks again all, and especially Tom. Let us know what you think.

Brian

[brianp-beme]

[QUOTE=

St. Louis Browns 4/19-21 (5)
Cleveland Indians 4/22-24 (5)
Detroit Tigers 4/26-27 (5)
Philadelphia Athletics 5/4 (3)
Boston Red Sox 5/7 (2)
New York Yankees 5/8-10 (0)
Washington Senators 5/13-14 (0)

Based on this information, do you think that it could be possible that these cards might have been given away at the ballpark as promotions?[/QUOTE]

One other interesting bit of info is that the length of the series seems to dictate the amount of non-White Sox cards issued. The Browns, Indians and Tigers each had either 2 or 3 day series, and thus 5 cards that might have given away in each of the series, while the Athletics and Red Sox had single day visits, and thus only 2 or 3 cards were given out. Does anyone know if home dates of any of these series involved doubleheaders?

Brian