Question about PSA/JSA "Guarantees"

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by mschwade

Nice post Adam!

but see i like the ungraded decent item, decent price. it is a marciano and it is ungraded, and at a decent price. i love that. others will stay away but if i know its good i will get it and i dont care if psa says its bad. i already know its good.

i once bought a marciano signed album page on ebay, it was uncerted, and the photo was a little blurry and a little far away, but i knew it was good, i bought it for 200, it was as good as gold. if psa, or jsa, or the man on the moon ever said no good. i dont care. i ended up selling it for 400 ungraded, with my own guarantee, which was the prevailing going price for marciano, (even WITH a TPA cert, they sell for about 400 bucks). the cert costs about 100 bucks when you factor in shipping both ways. I didn't pay that 100 dollars, and still sold it for the going rate. WHY?

Because there are people out there who know marciano's signature and dont need the tpa cert either, and my lifetime guarantee is a real guarantee, not like psa's no guarantee.


when psa said no good to the marciano, how did you know it was a bad marciano? did you ask a boxing signature expert? psa has no boxing signature expert. they have slabbed several wife signed sonny liston autographs as real sonny liston autographs, and jsa has certed wife signed liston autographs as well, and psa and jsa have both given thumbs down to authentic sonny liston autographs, one of them which belonged to me. I didn't throw it away just because they said no good, by the way. Half my collection could be no good according to them, but i know it was all good, so their opinion means what to me since they get boxing wrong so often? nothing.

You don't need to play the psa or jsa game, it just costs money you don't need to spend. fighttoys.com sets up at the boxing hof convention every year, and does well selling at the memorabilia show, and none of his items has psa or jsa certification. but he offers a lifetime guarantee and honors it. Full disclosure, I am friends with him by the way, Mark Ogren. he doesn't need psa or jsa either. it's a waste of money because they aren't known for boxing at all, what they ARE known for, I don't know.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by travrosty

but see i like the ungraded decent item, decent price. it is a marciano and it is ungraded, and at a decent price. i love that. others will stay away but if i know its good i will get it and i dont care if psa says its bad. i already know its good.

i once bought a marciano signed album page on ebay, it was uncerted, and the photo was a little blurry and a little far away, but i knew it was good, i bought it for 200, it was as good as gold. if psa, or jsa, or the man on the moon ever said no good. i dont care. i ended up selling it for 400 ungraded, with my own guarantee, which was the prevailing going price for marciano, (even WITH a TPA cert, they sell for about 400 bucks). the cert costs about 100 bucks when you factor in shipping both ways. I didn't pay that 100 dollars, and still sold it for the going rate. WHY?

Because there are people out there who know marciano's signature and dont need the tpa cert either, and my lifetime guarantee is a real guarantee, not like psa's no guarantee.


when psa said no good to the marciano, how did you know it was a bad marciano? did you ask a boxing signature expert? psa has no boxing signature expert. they have slabbed several wife signed sonny liston autographs as real sonny liston autographs, and jsa has certed wife signed liston autographs as well, and psa and jsa have both given thumbs down to authentic sonny liston autographs, one of them which belonged to me. I didn't throw it away just because they said no good, by the way. Half my collection could be no good according to them, but i know it was all good, so their opinion means what to me since they get boxing wrong so often? nothing.

You don't need to play the psa or jsa game, it just costs money you don't need to spend. fighttoys.com sets up at the boxing hof convention every year, and does well selling at the memorabilia show, and none of his items has psa or jsa certification. but he offers a lifetime guarantee and honors it. Full disclosure, I am friends with him by the way, Mark Ogren. he doesn't need psa or jsa either. it's a waste of money because they aren't known for boxing at all, what they ARE known for, I don't know.

Trav, you have the luxury of opting out of the TPA racket because you are an expert. If I want to sell something I do need to play the TPA game because I do not have a reputation as an autograph expert. Doesn't matter that the guy I bought it from is an expert or that I conclude that the item is good: that seller isn't there when I sell and my opinion doesn't carry the necessary weight with the consumer when it comes to autographs [yeah, I am an expert in boxing cards--SGC calls me with toughies--but not autographs]. I sent in the Marciano because I wanted to have that TPA warranty for resale purposes. If they won't pass the item it is worthless to me as a seller.

Richard, of course the seller has bumped his price to cover the TPA fee. I don't care about that because I am not merely paying for the TPA fee, I am paying [and I acknowledge that I am paying] a "risk premium" to eliminate the risk of a TPA rejection on a raw item. It is all about fungibility for me. I only pay what I am willing to pay and I only buy what my eyes tell me is good based on my studies BUT if I ever want to resell profitably without relying on an AH, I need the TPA blessing on the item.

I'm gonna say a dirty word: "investment". I am not just a collector. Card are too damn expensive and I am not wealthy enough to treat the Hobby as a hobby. Everything I buy [except for memorabilia of my cousins] I purchase with an eye on the investment potential and resale value, albeit with a long holding period and/or some risks involved. That's one reason why my book only lists actual transaction prices rather than projected prices except where clearly stated as an opinion as to what I think something should cost; I don't want to be accused of pumping and dumping my own stuff. Everything I own [except for memorabiia of my cousins] is for sale--for the right price I will even help you carry it to your car. That said, I gotta be sure everything I own can be moved, sometimes on short notice, because my main business ebbs and flows.

I'm also gonna say a nice word: "aesthetics". I happen to like how cards look slabbed, and I sometimes get them slabbed for display purposes. I like the way they line up in holders, like a museum display for my own private hall of fame. Like these:

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by exhibitman

trav, you have the luxury of opting out of the tpa racket because you are an expert. If i want to sell something i do need to play the tpa game because i do not have a reputation as an autograph expert. Doesn't matter that the guy i bought it from is an expert or that i conclude that the item is good: That seller isn't there when i sell and my opinion doesn't carry the necessary weight with the consumer when it comes to autographs [yeah, i am an expert in boxing cards--sgc calls me with toughies--but not autographs]. I sent in the marciano because i wanted to have that tpa warranty for resale purposes. If they won't pass the item it is worthless to me as a seller.

Richard, of course the seller has bumped his price to cover the tpa fee. I don't care about that because i am not merely paying for the tpa fee, i am paying [and i acknowledge that i am paying] a "risk premium" to eliminate the risk of a tpa rejection on a raw item. It is all about fungibility for me. I only pay what i am willing to pay and i only buy what my eyes tell me is good based on my studies but if i ever want to resell profitably without relying on an ah, i need the tpa blessing on the item.

I'm gonna say a dirty word: "investment". I am not just a collector. Card are too damn expensive and i am not wealthy enough to treat the hobby as a hobby. Everything i buy [except for memorabilia of my cousins] i purchase with an eye on the investment potential and resale value, albeit with a long holding period and/or some risks involved. That's one reason why my book only lists actual transaction prices rather than projected prices except where clearly stated as an opinion as to what i think something should cost; i don't want to be accused of pumping and dumping my own stuff. Everything i own [except for memorabiia of my cousins] is for sale--for the right price i will even help you carry it to your car. That said, i gotta be sure everything i own can be moved, sometimes on short notice, because my main business ebbs and flows.

I'm also gonna say a nice word: "aesthetics". I happen to like how cards look slabbed, and i sometimes get them slabbed for display purposes. I like the way they line up in holders, like a museum display for my own private hall of fame. Like these:

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