What baseball autographs could be considered uncommon

[travrosty]

he could make a ton of dough by just setting up his own web site and selling like brett favre does, so i dont think not making jeter type money is part of the equation.

he wants to be known as one of those difficult signers. he doesnt have to sign through the mail, but to refuse on the street, i dont get it. muhammad ali doesnt have that problem.

The speaker of the house of the united states asked armstrong for his autograph, and he turned her down. hardly seems like a scam attempt.

He wants to be known as a difficult signer. It gives him a sense of power, like it does mike marshall, and like it did bill russell. russell eventually gave in when enough money was involved.

If armstrong is concerned about unscrupulous people making money off of his autograph, the solution is to sign more, not less. the more things are worth, the more they are forged.

[drc]

From what I read, Armstrong both didn't like seeing his autograph selling for so much on the secondary market (him signing for someone else's profit and the money as motive that sickens many people about the hobby) and all the forgeries-- so he quit the whole process. At least that's what I read.

If he doesn't want to sign, that's his choice and fine by me. We live a free country.

[David Atkatz]

Armstrong doesn't owe anyone anything. It should be up to him whether he signs or not.

Ballplayers (and all other entertainers), on the other hand, do owe the fans--the ones who pay their outlandish salaries, and make it possible for them to become ungodly rich while playing a child's game.

[collectbaseball]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Armstrong doesn't owe anyone anything. It should be up to him whether he signs or not.

Ballplayers (and all other entertainers), on the other hand, do owe the fans--the ones who pay their outlandish salaries, and make it possible for them to become ungodly rich while playing a child's game.

I honestly don't think anybody owes anybody anything... if a guy doesn't want to sign, he doesn't want to sign.

But, just for the record, it's not like Armstrong's salary wasn't financed by you or people like you (not to mention cost of developing the technologies that enabled him to do what he did).

[David Atkatz]

And just what do you think Armstrong's salary was? Look it up sometime.
Jeter wouldn't give you the time of day for what Armstrong was making.

[HOFAUTOS]

Jeter signs in person for free a lot more then people may think. I've seen him sign before games inside the stadium, and he even signs if he's out walking on the street. There's a lot of in person successes with Jeter on a sports autograph website I'm on as well. He will rarely sign on the sweet spot and will usually give a rushed signature, but it's still a Jeter autograph.

Now if you're a single gorgeous lady and are lucky enough to make it home with him for the night, he will send you off with some signed memorabilia - according to a NY Times article

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by collectbaseball

I honestly don't think anybody owes anybody anything... if a guy doesn't want to sign, he doesn't want to sign.

But, just for the record, it's not like Armstrong's salary wasn't financed by you or people like you (not to mention cost of developing the technologies that enabled him to do what he did).

His salary was a pittance and for that he risked his life, didn't see his family grow up and went on countless PR tours for NASA. When does his obligation end?

I've seen the "we paid his salary" argument before and respond, we paid schoolteachers salaries too... 40 years after they retire, can I ask them to come over and rake my lawn because "I paid their salary."

[packs]

It has nothing to do with owing people anything. That's a bad argument. The argument is if you have time, why can't you sign an autograph? No one's saying anyone has to go out of their way out of obligation. But it seems rude, obnoxious, and even insulting that a guy who has time for an autograph would say no just because "that's what he does." Or, "he's signed enough." Give me a break. That is some self-righteous garbage.

[mark evans]

I don't believe anyone has a duty to sign autographs.

[mark evans]

Originally Posted by mark evans

I don't believe anyone has a duty to sign autographs.

It follows, by my way of thinking, that one who declines to sign does not owe anyone an explanation. Of course, no one has a right to be rude, either.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by packs

It has nothing to do with owing people anything. That's a bad argument. The argument is if you have time, why can't you sign an autograph? No one's saying anyone has to go out of their way out of obligation. But it seems rude, obnoxious, and even insulting that a guy who has time for an autograph would say no just because "that's what he does." Or, "he's signed enough." Give me a break. That is some self-righteous garbage.

I think you are seriously trivializing what a chore autograph signing can be for high-profile figures and celebrities, especially world-renowned individuals like Armstrong whose popularity extends across several areas of collecting and fandom. We're not talking about someone who played a couple of games in the majors and is just glad that someone remembers him. Armstrong is literally in the history books that every gradeschool kid grows up studying from.

It would never be "an" autograph request.

[collectbaseball]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

His salary was a pittance and for that he risked his life, didn't see his family grow up and went on countless PR tours for NASA. When does his obligation end?

I've seen the "we paid his salary" argument before and respond, we paid schoolteachers salaries too... 40 years after they retire, can I ask them to come over and rake my lawn because "I paid their salary."

I totally agree—just thought that it was silly to use the 'we pay his salary, thus he owes us something' argument to apply to athletes/entertainers but not to astronauts. Mike Marshall's salary was 'paid for' pretty darn near 40 years ago, but that doesn't stop people today from saying he's a dick for not signing for his fans.

It's cool with me if someone doesn't want to sign autographs, for whatever reason—but they probably should be polite about declining. I don't think it's exactly healthy to feel entitled to someone's autograph. Heck, if I were famous I'd probably just go Pynchon on everybody.

[JimStinson]

Mike G. Marshall was probably the most polite autograph "decliner" in history ! compared to HEROS like Munson who actually pushed kids to the ground or shoved them out of his way, Leon Wagner actually told me to go "F" off when I was 10 years old. Come on man ! Nobody is obligated to sign anything ....its a favor

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by JimStinson

Mike G. Marshall was probably the most polite autograph "decliner" in history ! compared to HEROS like Munson who actually pushed kids to the ground or shoved them out of his way, Leon Wagner actually told me to go "F" off when I was 10 years old. Come on man ! Nobody is obligated to sign anything ....its a favor

As a Yankee fan, the Munson worship even makes me scratch my head a bit. Everything I've ever read indicated he was a real SOB to everyone except the teammates he liked.

Maybe when someone dies young we tend to romanticize and turn a blind eye to negatives.

[Gary Dunaier]

Originally Posted by JimStinson

Mike G. Marshall was probably the most polite autograph "decliner" in history ! compared to HEROS like Munson who actually pushed kids to the ground or shoved them out of his way

Am I correct in my understanding that Marshall's reason for not signing autographs was because he didn't believe in hero worship, or that professional athletes weren't "heroes," and he felt autographs fed into that?

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by travrosty

he could make a ton of dough by just setting up his own web site and selling like brett favre does, so i dont think not making jeter type money is part of the equation.

he wants to be known as one of those difficult signers. he doesnt have to sign through the mail, but to refuse on the street, i dont get it. muhammad ali doesnt have that problem.

The speaker of the house of the united states asked armstrong for his autograph, and he turned her down. hardly seems like a scam attempt.

He wants to be known as a difficult signer. It gives him a sense of power, like it does mike marshall, and like it did bill russell. russell eventually gave in when enough money was involved.

If armstrong is concerned about unscrupulous people making money off of his autograph, the solution is to sign more, not less. the more things are worth, the more they are forged.

I completely disagree. If he wanted to be known as a difficult signer, why sign for over 35 years?

Read his authorized biography. He has a very structured way of looking at things. If he says no to Joe Blow, he says no to the speaker of the house. It's that simple. He's happy to shake your hand or pose for a photo like you are old pals... but no autographs.

When Apollo 11 returned, Charles Lindbergh imparted one bit of advice on the crew -- don't answer autograph requests because they will want more and more and it will never end. Collins listened, Armstrong and Aldrin did not.

Unlike Armstrong, Aldrin embraced fame and commercial opportunity.

[Exhibitman]

Several of the astronauts have commercial sites where you can pay for an autograph. If Armstrong doesn't like his signature sold by third parties, join the others and cut out the middleman. Give the proceeds to a pet charity if the filthy lucre aspect is repulsive. It just seems a shame to waste all of that potential good.

[travrosty]

exactly, he could have priced it at a point where it is affordable to the serious collector, and he wouldnt look like a jerk, he could make a bunch of money to do with what he wants, and a fullfillment company could ship out the orders for him. he takes as much time saying no than just signing. he gets satisfaction from saying no and exerting that type of power, like mike marshall.

he could have flooded the market by now easily and the demand would subside, all he had to do is pick a price point that collectors would buy, but the people looking for a freebie couldnt get one without ponying up. then nobody can complain that they are out of reach financially. say 250 per photograph, he could have signed 500,000 by now easily and dont sign through the mail, just refuse the stuff sent to him and point to his website.

Then he wouldnt look like a jerk, and collectors could get his autograph and everybody would be happy. by rigidly not signing, demand has only increased, and people bugging him for his autograph has only increased. he made it worse.

he has been offered 1 million dollars to sign stuff, even 2 million. but once he signs even a few, then he blows his so called "principled stance" that he adopted many years ago and he is afraid people will see him as a sell out. in reality people dont care. bill russell did the same thing, then ended up signing everything that isnt nailed down and took the money, and people don't care. they just want his signature.

muhammad ali is as well known world wide and he didnt have a problem signing for kings or vagrants and sign for money. he accomodated the collector, the fan and i dont see how Ali got bugged any less for his signature than Armstrong. If you want to stop the opportunists, sign a lot.