Becomming a dealer for full time income.

[Cardboard Junkie]

I suggest you forget the idea of making it a business.
I don't think the economy has hit bottom yet.
There is a very real possibility that the economy may never recover.
Plan for the worst, but hope for the best. jmo dave

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

I suggest you forget the idea of making it a business.
I don't think the economy has hit bottom yet.
There is a very real possibility that the economy may never recover.
Plan for the worst, but hope for the best. jmo dave

I agree with this. It might be a good way to supplement income if you wanted to work part time or for less money, but no way I would ever think about it as my only source of income.

[BuffettFan]

My father quit his job as an attorney in the late 70s to focus on gold coins and Civil war money and other collections. He said he loved his hobby but ultimately hated the business. I could see the stress build as he traded one set of problems (not liking the law practice) for another (new set of late hours to meet with clients, selling stock he did not want to yet to pay tuition or other bills).

I would take the "dipping your toe" approach, so that your "large" fortune does not turn into a "small" one.

Good luck!

[D. Bergin]

Everybody thinks buying and selling in their hobby of choice would be a great business plan, until they actually realize what goes into it.

I would sit down with an accountant and go over all the various expenses. Overhead, Tax situation, Health Insurance, Web Site costs, Merchant costs, Ebay and Paypal costs, Inventory costs, Paperwork you need to keep to keep track of everything concerning your business, collectors wondering why you can't pay 90% of retail for items that will sit in your store for 5+ years.

I have a small hobby business compared to most, and every year about tax time I have an epiphany about how much easier it was to put up with my overbearing, overworking bosses in the real world, where all I had to do was punch a clock and payroll would do all my taxes for me when I got paid on Thursday of every week.

Also, unless you have an insanely high end collection already, you can forget about keeping much for yourself. You'll generally find easily sellable inventory is not easily stumbled across in the real world, the best stuff will sell the quickest and you'll probably have to fall back on your collection at one point or another so you can pay the bills.

[smtjoy]

I agree with the "take is slow" approach and start by selling a few items on ebay then if you like it build upon that business. I starting selling my few dupes on ebay 5 years ago and each year built up my sales by looking for deals or by buying lots that had cards I wanted in them. I now have a small ebay store and have done very well on ebay, I have learned a ton and added all the profits to my collection. A few things I have learned-

***Having sufficient capital is so important, by using my own sales numbers I would need $200,000 in inventory and $50,000 in cash to make around $3,000 a month in profit and still grow the business.

***The good items sell fast and you are left with a growing inventory of items that will sit there unless you are willing to take a loss/no gain to move them, understanding turning your inventory is huge. When to sell at a loss and when to hold or discount. If your inventory turns stale you are doomed, a store needs fresh inventory to grow and expand, otherwise your store turns into the overpriced BIN museums you see on ebay.

***It is a detriment to your business to continue to collect. It brings the personal side into your decisions when you need to be able to base them solely on what will make you money. This is the biggest thing keeping me from greatly increasing my ballcard side business. Just this year, I had scouted a few lots in REA that I felt I could turn for a nice profit but there was also a single card I have been hunting for my collection for a long time I really wanted, well the collection won and I purchased the single card. Hard to buy cards you have no interest in them but to turn a profit vs buying a card you really want.

***It helps a lot of have an area you are an expert in as it will let you know when a card is a good deal to buy or not. I am a Clemente collector so when I started selling it was my dupes from upgrading so I knew how much I could expect to sell them for. Also by knowing the market it helped me on my purchases as I knew this little niche and would be alert for deals on ebay and AH for cards to resale and I could place low priced snipes and sometimes get lucky on them.

Good luck!

[glchen]

Originally Posted by smtjoy

...
***Having sufficient capital is so important, by using my own sales numbers I would need $200,000 in inventory and $50,000 in cash to make around $3,000 a month in profit and still grow the business.

***The good items sell fast and you are left with a growing inventory of items that will sit there unless you are willing to take a loss/no gain to move them, understanding turning your inventory is huge. When to sell at a loss and when to hold or discount. If your inventory turns stale you are doomed, a store needs fresh inventory to grow and expand, otherwise your store turns into the overpriced BIN museums you see on ebay.

***It is a detriment to your business to continue to collect. It brings the personal side into your decisions when you need to be able to base them solely on what will make you money. This is the biggest thing keeping me from greatly increasing my ballcard side business. Just this year, I had scouted a few lots in REA that I felt I could turn for a nice profit but there was also a single card I have been hunting for my collection for a long time I really wanted, well the collection won and I purchased the single card. Hard to buy cards you have no interest in them but to turn a profit vs buying a card you really want.

***It helps a lot of have an area you are an expert in as it will let you know when a card is a good deal to buy or not. I am a Clemente collector so when I started selling it was my dupes from upgrading so I knew how much I could expect to sell them for. Also by knowing the market it helped me on my purchases as I knew this little niche and would be alert for deals on ebay and AH for cards to resale and I could place low priced snipes and sometimes get lucky on them.

Good luck!

I think Scott gives some tremendously good advice on how to do business on ebay. I would emphasize that part on what happens when you sell enough and become an expert in a certain area. For example, if you collect a certain area, say 1914 Cracker Jacks, you'll know which commons are "short prints" and are in demand more. For those cards, you will learn you can sell at a higher price than other commons.

Regarding market efficiency, I would say it's around a 5. People aren't stupid as if you're selling a card for $50 and ten other sellers have it at the same grade for $25, you're not going to be selling your card. However, this thread was recently posted on the PSA forums: I know this has been rehashed before, but how does 707 get the prices he gets?!?!
. So there you go about how some sellers with BIN museums can still sell stuff, somehow.

[keithsky]

Seems alot of the dealers got out of business or started auction websites. That seems to be the big thing now. Maybe turn to that route if you can find good inventory to start and then find consignors. High end auction houses are out there so trying to compete with them will be tough to impossible but if you stuck to low end auctions there is alot more of us out there than high end. Do it part time to see how it goes and then decide on your job but i for sure would not quit your job right now the way the economy is and the income from your job you will need to get started. Brick and morter shops are almost obsolete because of the internet. Just my views

[sb1]

Unfortunately you are about 10-15 years to late to the party. While cards are easy to sell, the most difficult part is to replace them with a steady inventory. While this was very possible circa 2000, via large auction lots and private collection purchases, it is virtually impossible to buy great deals at low prices in the age of the single graded card auctions, and to make matters worse, several of the "whales" are no longer buying.

[poorlydrawncat]

Not sure how relevant this will be to your situation, but I figured I might as well make a post about my own experiences as an ebay seller. About 6 months ago my father asked me to sell his collection for him, in exchange for his '52 Topps Mantle. I had always coveted the Mantle (I used to collect when I was younger) so I agreed. In the next few months, I learned a lot about cards and ebay. After it was all over, I had developed a taste for collecting myself. I'm currently in college and have absolutely NO disposable income. Yet, since February I have been able to amass a collection worth around 8-10 thousand dollars, without spending a dime (that's a lie, I'm currently $200-$300 in the red, but I'm working on it). I should also mention that I only buy cards that I know I'll be able to make at least $20 on, and generally I look for a return of at least 30-50 percent. Here's what I've learned so far:

Learn how to search for items that are below market value. I personally keep about 20-30 tabs open on my computer of ebay searches that I constantly refresh throughout the day. Most of these are in non-traditional categories where uneducated sellers commonly list their cards. The easiest way to find these categories is to do a search for what you're interested in WITHOUT selecting a category. Ebay will show you all the categories where your search appears. I've been very surprised at what I've found using this method (I once found a lot of Mickey Mantle cards listed under the "Masonic and Fraternal Coffee Mug" category--GO FIGURE).

What you are searching for is just as important as where you are searching. Uneducated sellers don't use the same vernacular as card experts, so searching for T206 is unlikely to get you anywhere. Instead, search for terms like "tobacco card", "piedmont", "Old Mill" etc. Use the term "sports card" or "trading card" instead of "baseball card". There are many more useful search terms that you'll discover along the way. Also, learn how to use shortcuts to consolidate your searches (using commas, parentheses, minus signs, etc.). I usually max out the search bars character limit for each category.

The best deals, however, will always be BINs, regardless of what category the item is posted in. This requires CONSTANT refreshing of your searches and a lot of patience, but it pays off big time. You can easily make 500-700 dollars off of a single card.

If you can learn how to accurately grade cards through pictures, you can find raw cards and then flip them once they've been graded. This one is probably the most dangerous method, but there are steps you can take to reduce the risk. First, look for auctions that accept 14-day returns, in case the card comes back lower than you were hoping (usually PSA's turnaround fits within this time-frame for high-end cards). Also, if the card comes back altered in any way I have never had trouble getting refund from the seller once I provide the PSA slip.

Finally, learn as much as possible about a wide variety of cards. I recently picked up a complete set of first edition Pokemon cards for $500 (a quick BIN purchase) that I flipped for $1200 within 48 hours of receiving the package. Deals like this are few and far between, so having a broad knowledge base helps you find them wherever and whenever they pop up.

Anyway, I hope this helps in some way. If not, I'm sure there's someone else out there like me who's looking to build a nice collection on a nonexistent budget.

EDIT: Forgot to mention a few things. Keep an eye out for sellers who don't crop their scans. In other words, look for auctions with small pictures or large pictures with lots of empty white space. These are almost guaranteed to flip for higher when you upload quality scans of the item. Lots are always a good bet too, but as it has already been said before, a lot of times lots will go for the exact sum of what the cards would be expected to go for individually. Look for lot listings that lack a lot of common keywords (such as lots titled: BOX OF CARDBOARD SQUARES :P).

[ScottFandango]

Originally Posted by keithsky

Seems alot of the dealers got out of business or started auction websites. That seems to be the big thing now. Maybe turn to that route if you can find good inventory to start and then find consignors. High end auction houses are out there so trying to compete with them will be tough to impossible but if you stuck to low end auctions there is alot more of us out there than high end. Do it part time to see how it goes and then decide on your job but i for sure would not quit your job right now the way the economy is and the income from your job you will need to get started. Brick and morter shops are almost obsolete because of the internet. Just my views

thats so they dont have to shower anymore, and wont need to buy deodorant

[steve B]

Yep, what everyone else has said.

You'll need inventory, and unless you specialize that means laying out a LOT of money.
Or
You do quick turnover on Ebay for a small profit each time. And you still have to buy more stuff to resell. Even decent sized lots of T206s on Ebay seem to go for about what they'd be individually.

Any collectibles business can be a tough one. People complain about not getting anywhere near retail for a collection, without considering the time to list the things for sale, or if you're doing shows, merely putting the stuff into new holders. While it's ok for me to have my cards in old yellowed toploaders, slightly cracked cardsavers and a variety of other holders that's not what people expect or usually accept from a dealer.

Sit down one night and simply reholder and price 50-100 cards. And track the time.


If you still want to do it full time, go for it. the advice at that point?
1)Find someone to do the stuff you're not good at. For me that would be the paperwork.
2) Decide what your "angle" will be, and stay with it long enough to know if it will work.
3)Change if it won't work.
4)You can make money with anything if you buy it right
5) You don't always need to be an expert, but you do have to be a good guesser.
6) Offload your mistakes and move on. Nobody gets it right every time. As long as you learn from it the mistake was probably ok.

Steve B

[SetBuilder]

Scott, Steve,

On a scale of 1-10, 1 being very inefficient and 10 being perfectly efficient, how would you rate the card market in general?

Economic theory would suggest there are more profits to be made in an inefficient market, than in a perfect one.

I happen to think, based on my observations, that the pre-war sports card market is about a 4 or less on this scale. The price fluctuations are pretty wide. Enough to realize a healthy profit if you're going from wholesale (auctions, lots, private collections) to retail.

The only downside is the time you have to wait before someone meets your price point.

You can't catch any fish if you're not fishing.

[ullmandds]

manny...I understand your point here...but...it seems to me that larger lots of desirable items in major auctions seem to be selling at very high levels these days...near retail prices imo! 5 years ago it seemed easy to buy a large lot in a major auction for a discount reflective of economies of scale...and then sell the cards individually for a tidy profit...but I believe those days are gone?!

Sure...there are bargains to be found...but these are few and far in between.

Personally I'd rather buy a hot dog cart and sell hot dogs to blue/white collar workers every day...this would be a much easier...more profitable business model than vintage bb cards.

[barrysloate]

I wish you luck with it but I think it will be tough...as has been pointed out there aren't a lot of bargains out there and keeping a fresh inventory won't be easy. If you can accept parting with your collection it will improve your business prospects greatly. I say give it a try but no guarantee it will work out.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Personally I'd rather buy a hot dog cart and sell hot dogs to blue/white collar workers every day...this would be a much easier...more profitable business model than vintage bb cards.

I used to get lunch at a sub shop where the owner basically did just that. He was a big time chef, he had photos of him and the Kennedys with a 20ft long cold cut "platter"

He quit the high end stuff because in his words "When lunch is $100 a plate people feel obliged to complain and send stuff back. Here I can make 500 people happy between 11 and 1 "


As far as the card market goes, It would depend on the item. Certain stuff will do well NOW, and some won't. Unless your thing will be dealing in the very high end only it's a better time to buy. The upper mid range stuff will be weak for a while, and when it comes back it'll be great. (Assuming the popularity holds) The cheap stuff could represent a bit of a bargain, but will always be inexpensive.
If I had the capital, I'd be buying really nice condition cards of better players, stuff in the 200-1000 range. Maybe more for the bigger names. And I'd be planning on holding it for say 5 years. After that, I'd either have a nice collection or a nice inventory.

Predicting what's going to be big is nearly impossible. Over 30 years we've seen pretty much everything have its day. Inserts, variations, Ecards, Etopps......Only a few things have stayed fairly stable.

The efficiency of big price fluctuations cuts both ways.

Steve B

[RobertGT]

The key question you have to ask yourself is this: Can you buy inventory THAT WILL SELL FOR A HIGHER PRICE on a consistent basis, and can you obtain it at a price point that would make this venture sustainable over time?

If you have a large network of contacts, ability to purchase inventory at wholesale prices through various outlets, or can find inexpensive collections in your vicinity then I say go for it. Take a shot at something you love.

If you have to resort to buying material on eBay or through online auction houses, then this idea is dead on arrival. You will wind up selling your collection to put food on the table.

Also, I agree with the earlier poster that spelling errors such as "becomming" and "web sight" do not help your cause. Professionalism goes a long way with buyers. While it's not always true, many times TYPO=SCAMMER in the world of online commerce, and that's definitely not an image you want to impart.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

[Tsaiko]

Try the nymphomaniac for two weeks, then see if you still feel the same way about opening a sport card and memorabilia business.

[edhans]

There's an easy to become a millionaire in the card business-start out a billionaire.