Black Swamp Find?

[calvindog]

Yeah, I couldn't find it either. Jim and I have about 9 degrees between us -- if only we had that 10th we'd be able to use Heritage's damn site. Unreal. What is with Heritage?

[glchen]

Linky

[oldjudge]

Do the pop reports numbers listed in the lot description include all the cards from the find? It was my impression that there were a couple of dozen extremely high grade examples each for most of the cards in the set. In my opinion, it would be extremely disingenuous on Heritage's part if the figures did not include all the cards from the find.

[CW]

Originally Posted by glchen

Linky

Thanks for posting that.

Looking at those cards... wow! It's like going back in time....

[ullmandds]

Thanks for posting the link that is the first time I saw all of those cards together amazing! What strikes me as odd obviously is the vast majority of cards that are red? So if all of these cards came from a store that was supposed to give them away... it would make sense that the colors were printed at different times and it just so happens that this store got almost all reds... very interesting!

[Matthew H]

Sheesh, I just got blinded by the white boarders! I'm guessing the Tinker and Jennings were part of the group represented by a single example...

Nothing against Heritage but it's funny how some auction descriptions will go on for days while this one somewhat leaves us in the dark.

[E93]

Those cards are mind-boggling! I am speechless!
JimB

[philliesphan]

Here is the PSA pop. report for the E98 set.

It does appear as if there may be a [small] number of additional cards out there, but the auction description does mention that there are two PSA 10 Kling's for example.

Notably, the Pop. report has many examples of a few cards:

Twelve Chief Meyers graded PSA 9 (and two graded PSA 10)
Eighteen Johnny Kling cards graded PSA 9
FIFTEEN TY COBB cards graded PSA 9.

Those numbers for those three players are even more extreme than the Toleteros Gibson. At this point, only a fool would pay up significant coin for one of the Cobbs.

M

[glchen]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Thanks for posting the link that is the first time I saw all of those cards together amazing! What strikes me as odd obviously is the vast majority of cards that are red? So if all of these cards came from a store that was supposed to give them away... it would make sense that the colors were printed at different times and it just so happens that this store got almost all reds... very interesting!

If you want some more color variations, here are some greens: Linky

[barrysloate]

What's interesting is high grade E98's, once considered quite rare, are now going to be relatively easy to find. You'll see some in every upcoming major auction. This group will continue to circulate for years to come. Nevertheless, an extraordinary group of cards.

[philliesphan]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

What's interesting is high grade E98's, once considered quite rare, are now going to be relatively easy to find. You'll see some in every upcoming major auction. This group will continue to circulate for years to come. Nevertheless, an extraordinary group of cards.

Barry, to me this seems like a Mello Mints type of situation. Yes, there are three cards that will be profoundly easy to find in high grade. But, like the Mello Mint find, there is a huge skew of population here.

15 Ty Cobb PSA 9s? But no Bresnahan's, with the highest graded copy there a PSA 7 Lots of Johnny Klings, but no Miner Browns.

What I envision happening is that these high grade examples will most likely fall into type collectors runs. It will be interesting to see how these are filtered into the hobby, as surely this Heritage grouping is only round one, though it might represent the best and most complete run of the find.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Yeah, I couldn't find it either. Jim and I have about 9 degrees between us -- if only we had that 10th we'd be able to use Heritage's damn site. Unreal. What is with Heritage?

Yes, 8 + 1 does equal 9.

[Tim Kindler]

Look everyone, before you kill me with responses...I'M NOT SAYING THESE E98s ARE FAKE....but no one has brought up the obvious question: Are these things really real. As much as some people hate TPG and PSA, I'm surprised no one has actually wondered in writing in this thread if they are indeed real. I've never posted in one of the many TPG or PSA bashing threads before (You can look it up!) so I have no grudge at all against PSA. I'm just simply finding all of these numerous 8s, 9s, and 10s hard to believe from E98s all of a sudden coming out of the woodwork. I would be lying if I said I didn't have my doubts just how old these E98s really are, even though I have absolutely no evidence to back up my suspicions other than TPG do make mistakes.
Tim Kindler

[ullmandds]

I don't know Tim...but looking at that hi res scan of Wags...the card sure looks real!!!!! If these have been hidden away, untouched for all these years...I believe it!!!! They sure look real to me?!

[ctownboy]

Tim,

I am not going to get into the TPG discussion or whether these cards are authentic or not. The first question I had was concerning the brief description. I read that these cards were found under a doll house in an attic and look like they just came from the printer.

So, my question is, were they found under the doll house in a box already cut OR were they found in uncut sheets and then cut at a later date?

Think about it; from the looks of it, these cards have mostly red backgrounds. If they were in uncut sheets up in the attic all of these years, then the top sheet would have taken most of the abuse from the doll house while the sheets underneath would have been protected.

Now, obviously the cards could have been cut at the printer and sent to the meat market where the owner put them in a box and then in an attic where they stayed all of these years. I don't know and would like to hear the whole story about how these cards were found.

David

[Cardboard Junkie]

Aloha, I find that I can tell fake cards for certain sometimes from a scan, but I can never tell for certain if a card is genuine or after factory cut from a scan.
With all of the atrocities we have seen with tpg (like the gretzgy wags) they can't be trusted to grade properly, or to recognize alterations.
I too would like to know who found them and the whole story...psa should know, they labled them as a special "find". Is TPG smart enough to recognize these as fakes if indeed they are? I think there might be enough demand for them to hold their price and maybe even increase because these are from the special black swamp fiasco What would they have got if seven oh seven submitted them? 11s and 12s.? rant rant rant etc Dave Pierson

[E93]

If they were uncut sheets there would not be 15 of one player and none of another. This is what a related E93 sheet looked like.


The two sets share several of the same player images. I think it is fair to assume that like the 30 card E93 set, the E98s sets were likely printed all on one sheet. Apparently the cards were found in a box bundled and tied in groups with twine according to the description on the Heritage site.

And as mentioned, the high res blowup scan reveals dot patters identical to known E98s and virtually all 1910 era lithography. According to experts it is a pattern that would be extremely difficult and costly to duplicate today. I think the likelihood that they are not real is almost zero. Just my opinion.
JimB

[barrysloate]

My guess is of course they are real, but I also find it almost impossible that so many of them have survived for a hundred years in such an incredible state of preservation. It almost seems too good to be true.

Should I say they're real and they're spectacular? I guess I just said it.