PSA vs SGC...the definitive Debate!!!

CMIZ5290 · #1 06-28-2012, 10:08 AM

Chad- glad you posted that. I also have a t206 sgc 70 mordecai brown (tolstoi) with a tiny, tiny crease at the bottom on the back of the card. The card looks like an 8, so in my mind, sgc hit the card a couple of grades because of that....

vintagetoppsguy · #2 06-28-2012, 10:29 AM

I challenged anyone to post a scan of an SGC card with paper loss that is graded a 4 or higher. Nobody can do it. I can post scans of several PSA cards with paper loss that are graded a 4 or higher (many that are graded a PSA 6).

Somebody else challenged anyone to post a scan of an SGC card with a visible crease graded 5 or higher. Again, nobody can do it. Below is a better scan of the Carrigan (PSA 5.5) with the corner crease.

I hear chatter, no scans.

chaddurbin · #3 06-28-2012, 10:32 AM

how about botn's sgc60 cobb with a piece of corner hanging out? it's not a crease, but does that count?

http://www.b-lauctions.com/site/bid/...etauctionid=78

p.s. i have better use for my hard drive than saving tpg's mistakes, like porn.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Somebody else challenged anyone to post a scan of an SGC card with a visible crease graded 5 or higher. Again, nobody can do it. Below is a better scan of the Carrigan (PSA 5.5) with the corner crease.

I hear chatter, no scans.

CMIZ5290 · #4 06-28-2012, 10:39 AM

Chad- i would think that a glued on corner would count.....

vintagetoppsguy · #5 06-28-2012, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

how about botn's sgc60 cobb with a piece of corner hanging out? it's not a crease, but does that count?

Sure, that counts.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ighlight=nippy

I deleted the scans, but you can read the thread and get the idea.

glynparson · #6 06-28-2012, 11:15 AM

and psa does allow wrinkles up to a 6, if a crease its a definite way overgrade.its overgraded as a wrinkle but not shocking to me. just because sgc does not allow wrinkles on 5s it does not mean sgc is not more lenient in some areas. In the past it was centering now it seems to be corners (except high end where they are just as tough but mid grade can have a wide range of wear,particularly sgc 60 cards. I am way more concerned with filed and trimmed cards then i am overgraded unaltered cards and that is where I feel left down the most.

Ps many people also need to realize standards have tightened considerably in the industry since psa's inception in 1992?( i think). Around 2000 i feel standards have jumped to the know sometimes unreasonable, for 8 anyways, standards (thus the survival of many card doctors).

T206Collector · #7 06-28-2012, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glynparson

sgc does not allow wrinkles on 5s it does not mean sgc is not more lenient in some areas.

This is really my point. Every since I've been collecting baseball cards -- now close to 30 years -- "EX" was understood to allow somewhat rounded/touched corners, but NEVER creases. That was how I was raised to think of grading and, frankly, value.

Now, it may be that PSA will allow for more creasing in 5s than SGC. And it is certainly true that SGC will allow softer corners on a SGC than PSA will allow on a 5. But, to me, that is a terrific mistake on PSA's part.

As far as scans go, I keep my scans "in the clouds" on Picassa. No hard drive space issues here. And I have close to 100 PSA 5/SGC 60 T206 cards in my collection. I frequently buy them "blind" -- i.e., buying the holder and not the cards (mea culpa) -- and can tell you for dead certain that the SGC 60s are much safer to buy blind than the PSA 5s are, particularly if you don't like creases.

This 100 card example, which has been amassed since April 2012, is EXACTLY THE SAME as my experience collecting PSA 5/SGC 60 now almost 10 years ago.

Now, it may be that PSA grades a higher volume of cards -- but how is that at all relevant when I have been buying both in equal amounts, without regard for whether its PSA or SGC. I buy them both the same.

My "vitriol" for PSA is based on customer service, grading quality, and grading consistency.

I also have no personal knowledge of "cronyism" at SGC. But the "chatter" about cronyism at TPGs is as old as the day is long. So are the anecdotes. Where is the objective evidence? I really have no opinion one way or another on whether it exists (unlike the SGC 60 T206 with a crease, where I have never seen one).

glynparson · #8 06-28-2012, 03:55 PM

toppszl1 · #9 06-28-2012, 06:00 PM

I can only say what I've seen, my friend has an account with PSA, we sent 102 cards to them 4/10/12, we finally received them back 2 days ago, a gentlemen called my friend the account holder and told him that there's been a serious accident the encapsulating machine damaged 6 of our cards and they're going to send them back to regrade them I about fell over, after numerous calls to them about is our cards done he gets the call about 6 cards being damaged & he wasn't sure of who's cards got damaged, in the long run nobody wins, I will "never use PSA to grade my cards ever again!

Long story short my friends cards (6) got damaged and he was compensated $200.00

My 2nd story is now I've sent 10 cards to SGC about 2 weeks ago, Earl and the gang are great,,I was scared shitless on a shipping concern, I sent 10 cards priorty mail, with insurance and delivery confirmation, my 2 prized cards a 1958 Hank Aaron card white letter and a 1960 Mickey Mantle card and 8 other cards, I bought the 2 cards at a auction and both cards are stunning and centered..

Here's what happened and here's what I liked, I recieved delivery confirmation that the box got there, I called 2 days later and my order wasn't checked in, I called, they said they didn't get the order, I claimed the box is there, I'm sweating bullets, I'm thinking I sent a box to a building or suite and now the delivery is all messed up sent to the wrong floor, after a few phone calls with immediate response my cards were there, I recieved a customer number since I was brand new and they actually post the cards so you can review them and click on a link to get the pop report all in a few seconds, the team at SGC prevailed and now I'm waiting for the results, my cards have been there for about 2 1/2 weeks now.

Long story short, I'm on the east coast PSA doesn't have my business any more and yes the holder is more attractive in the SGC holder no matter what anybody says.

CMIZ5290 · #10 06-28-2012, 08:27 PM

Toppsz? So what exactly are you saying? I am just confused on the point you are trying to make.....You said "long story short" 3 times.....Why are you happy when your cards have been at SGC for almost 3 weeks, and you have still not received them?

vintagetoppsguy · #11 06-28-2012, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Toppsz? So what exactly are you saying? I am just confused on the point you are trying to make.....You said "long story short" 3 times.....Why are you happy when your cards have been at SGC for almost 3 weeks, and you have still not received them?

I'm guessing he sent them in on the post-1948 grading tier (just a guess since none of this month's specials apply to the cards he submitted) which is a 20 business day turnaround. His cards have been there about 13-14 business days. That means they won't pop for another week. What's is so confusing about that? Maybe to someone that is willing to wait 2-3 months on a PSA submission can't understand that, but I understood him just fine.

CMIZ5290 · #12 06-28-2012, 09:05 PM

David- no offense, but you need to get an anti-psa shot...probably will do you good. Also, you had stated SGC never, never made grading mistakes on paper loss or wrinkles.....ANY CHATTER?

vintagetoppsguy · #13 06-28-2012, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

David- no offense, but you need to get an anti-psa shot...probably will do you good.

Kevin, no offense taken. I just don't like PSA. If someone offers a crappy service, I take my business elsewhere. I'm funny that way.

There are many threads on the CU boards complaining about turnaround times, yet they still take the abuse over and over. I don't get it. There are also many threads complaining about the grades they receive. My solution would be to find another service. Their solution? Crack and re-submit. In other words, they think that PSA didn't get it right the first time, but they're going to pay them (and trust them) to do it again? What's the definition of insanity? To keep doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

No offense to you either Kevin, but I don't understand your stance with PSA. Any time an ovegraded card is shown, your answer is "mechanical error." And it's not just you, that is the common answer to PSA screw ups. I'll show this card card again. Untampered! Is this the kind of company you want to grade your cards? Come on, say it. "Mechanical error."

RUSH2112 · #14 06-28-2012, 09:27 PM

All I ever got from my short experience with PSA was misgraded cards and gouged on shipping.

Upon becoming a member of the exclusive PSA club, I also received numerous publications I never asked for or read. I even received double issues of a large T206 coffee table book which cost the company $27.00 each to ship to Canada from California.

I did have to contact SGC via email about a shipping to question Canada and received a quick reply and felt they were willing to accomodate my needs any way they could. Very professional in my opinion.

View Poll Results: Who sucks the least? PSA or SGC?
PSA sucks the least!	42	17.43%
SGC sucks the least!	146	60.58%
They both suck equally!	53	21.99%
Voters: 241. You may not vote on this poll

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