1931 Babe Ruth Autograph Ball--Traced Over--JSA

[mcgwirecom]

Does JSA use the paper with his watermark? Hold it up to the light and see if it has his watermark.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by mcgwirecom

Does JSA use the paper with his watermark? Hold it up to the light and see if it has his watermark.

JSA LOA should have a watermark in the form of Spence's signature and the notary stamp should be embossed.

[Donscards]

Guys I am confused as all of you on this baseball----What I can tell you is this Ball came into our shop when Jimmy Spence was having a Authentication day at the shop---He looked at the ball for 1/2 hour and did authenticate it---why the cert is not in his data base I dont know---I would have to talk to him---I will see him at the National----there are a few other names on the ball(two being the owner's mother and grandparents along with the State----also some other writing on a panel which I cant read.---why Jimmy mentioned clubhouse, I dont know---but he did feel Babe signed the ball and then it was traced over (maybe why he mentioned clubhouse)----The coa is good and everything is legit----again I will talk to Jimmy on it for a update---it was done like 5 years ago and the fellow came into the shop this week and sold it to me.---We had a authentication last sat again with JSA but the ball came in later in the week.---I will put a price on the ball at $500 and we can go from there.---If it doesnt sell, I will have it at the National if anyone cares to look at it. I know it isnt a topnotch ball and I am not trying to sell it at top dollar. I also would prefer a signed Babe ball that isnt traced over but this is how the ball is. low grade etc. I hope I helped a little here. thanks, Don

[RichardSimon]

Jimmy uses the term clubhouse signatures for a very specific reason. The COA seems to be for a ball with clubhouse signatures,,, this gets weirder by the minute.
I am spending way too much time on the computer ,,, on my way out for a while, it is a beautiful day in NYC.
I need a vacation,, (soon, I will be on one)

[drc]

The JSA LOAs I've seen have his watermark in the paper. Including the auction house LOAs.

[Wymers Auction]

Looking at the connection between the first b and a and the large loop in the second b does anyone think it is real anyway? Even traced over there should not be so big of a loop on that b right? I do not understand authenticating traced overs the original could have been traced on the ball in pencil and then gone over.

[JimStinson]

Forgive me for chiming in on what may be a controversial subject but in my opinion a "trace over" has no value. Mainly because of the question "What is being traced over ?" most of the time its an actual autograph that has faded badly, but once the traceover is applied who knows? I have examined many baseballs especially Babe Ruth on which someone way back when just had drawn Ruth's signature on a baseball and presented it as a gift. Back in the 1930's and 1940's , the ball itself would have had more value than the autograph, so was not a malacious act. The family then kept the baseball for years thinking it was real and it never was. Also many Mrs Babe Ruth signed baseballs , when she was signing for him would appear real if traced over. So what makes a traceover worthless is you never would know what was being traced over if anything. There may be a market for them I don;t know so if someone somewhere is willing to buy one, a traceover would have value but in my office a traceover is always filed in the wastebasket
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[David Atkatz]

The letter mentions "clubhouse signatures" because JSA uses one boilerplate form letter for everything they authenticate, whether it is appropriate to the item or not.
You might think that for your $150 fee JSA would have a few template letters to choose from, but you'd be wrong.