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  #1  
Old 06-15-2012, 09:06 AM
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Touch'EmAll Touch'EmAll is offline
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Default The T206 Wagner

Look at our hobbies most iconic card - the T206 Wagner.

How many (legit copies) are still out there ungraded in someones collection that has no want to sell, and no desire for their T206 Wagner to be encapsulated? Double current pops? Triple? 5 times current pop figures?

Seems like an event for celebration and national news worthy story whenever one beater is discovered on rare occasion ever few years. But a PSA 5+ T206 Wagner ungraded - just can't imagine a whole lot exist.
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  #2  
Old 06-15-2012, 09:34 AM
Matthew H Matthew H is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 100backstroke View Post
Look at our hobbies most iconic card - the T206 Wagner.

How many (legit copies) are still out there ungraded in someones collection that has no want to sell, and no desire for their T206 Wagner to be encapsulated? Double current pops? Triple? 5 times current pop figures?

Seems like an event for celebration and national news worthy story whenever one beater is discovered on rare occasion ever few years. But a PSA 5+ T206 Wagner ungraded - just can't imagine a whole lot exist.
Most of the better examples of the t206 Wagner are un-graded. Everyone knows that. I'm surprised you don't, considering that you think you know enough to post in a thread like this.

Also, many cards are consigned to auction companies raw. The auction house will submit them to grading companies if they feel it will maximize profit. This is why all good cards in the catalog are graded.

On another note, I was born in 1980 and I think stabbing cards is totally lame, I tried it and don't like it. So I don't think you can state "facts" about what other collectors will do if they were doing their thing at a different time.
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  #3  
Old 06-15-2012, 10:06 AM
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Default tough chat with you folks

I have been asking, "how many do you think" type questions - not many tangible responses from all you folks in the know, just a lot of jabs at me.

sorry - just trying to have an informative chat - guess I don't know very much
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  #4  
Old 06-15-2012, 10:12 AM
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pete ullman
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Perhaps the reason is that most of these questions have already been asked and discussed in the past. A simple search through the archives will probably give you many of the answers you seek.

Additionally many of the questions posed here have no answers. Only guesses.
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  #5  
Old 06-15-2012, 10:24 AM
Matthew H Matthew H is offline
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I didn't reply until you mentioned the Wagner thing. There are only a few graded above 2 in PSA reports and, someone can correct me if I'm wrong, I believe the Drier example was only recently graded. The best examples out there are still raw.
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  #6  
Old 06-15-2012, 10:29 AM
travrosty travrosty is offline
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kZG5...8&feature=plcp


go to the 4 minute mark and watch mr mint buy album after album after album of ungraded superb cards. There are lots of collectors out there like this. jilliions of them. whether it is pre wwii or just after, lots of guys collect CARDS, I know it is a novel concept.

Last edited by travrosty; 06-15-2012 at 10:32 AM.
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  #7  
Old 06-15-2012, 10:30 AM
Paul S Paul S is offline
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Default I don't see...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 100backstroke View Post
I have been asking, "how many do you think" type questions - not many tangible responses from all you folks in the know, just a lot of jabs at me.

sorry - just trying to have an informative chat - guess I don't know very much
...much in the way in the way of "jabs" toward you at all. These responses come from some very knowledgeable people. Is it possible that their responses are just not the answers you anticipated?
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  #8  
Old 06-15-2012, 10:40 AM
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Default Lets get specific

I've been collecting since the early 80s. At the time (pre-Internet and eBay) I picked up cards at shows, from collectors, and through ads in the trade papers.

I bought things that were in the intersection between what I was interested in, what appealed to me, and what I could afford. At that time, type cards weren't all that hot--e135s, anyone?--so you could get high-quality cards for not much money. I took advantage of that.

In the years since, I've paid to have exactly three cards graded--an SGC 70 Buchner (for protection), and a couple '54 Topps (because they were nice but didn't fit my interests any more and I thought I could get more for them in slabs). My other cards rest in penny sleeves inside top-loaders. They'll probably stay that way until it's time for my heirs to break everything up.

There are two main reasons for me leaving things ungraded. First, I've learned enough about cards that I have my own opinions as to quality. Second, would I rather spend $500 to have a pile of cards graded, or to buy more cards? Duh. Some folks would prefer to have their cards graded. I've seen pics on here of wonderful displays of graded cards.

I have what some folks here would call an "armpit" collection, but I do enjoy it. Multiply me by many times, and you do get quite a few high-quality cards that are in collections but not slabbed.

Then there are the items that aren't in collections yet. Think of the "finds" from the last few years: Skydash's incredible group of Colgans, the Oregon Old Judges, etc. They all ended up in slabs. I do believe that this trend will lead to a greater and greater proportion of "good" cards ending up in slabs.

Question for those among us who prefer that their cards breathe freely: Are your convictions so strong that you'll insist that the cards be sold unslabbed after you're gone?

Just one perspective,

Bill
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  #9  
Old 06-15-2012, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by birdman42 View Post
Second, would I rather spend $500 to have a pile of cards graded, or to buy more cards? Duh.
That says it all.
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  #10  
Old 06-15-2012, 12:13 PM
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That's always been my take as well. I'd rather spend money on more cards than grading fees. I didn't even own any graded cards until they became the norm on ebay. The cards I collected over the years were never graded. It's hard to justify the cost until you want to sell something. However, I do have to add I wouldn't buy any expensive card from ebay that wasn't graded.
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Old 06-15-2012, 06:29 PM
Republicaninmass Republicaninmass is offline
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Originally Posted by birdman42
Second, would I rather spend $500 to have a pile of cards graded, or to buy more cards? Duh.

That says it all.



not using the $500 for grading, you heirs will lose thousands in potential profits, rather short sighted, but I see the point.
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  #12  
Old 06-15-2012, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Republicaninmass View Post
Originally Posted by birdman42
Second, would I rather spend $500 to have a pile of cards graded, or to buy more cards? Duh.

That says it all.



not using the $500 for grading, you heirs will lose thousands in potential profits, rather short sighted, but I see the point.
I'm a collector, not a dealer. They can be slabbed if/when they are sold. I keep detailed notes on every item in my collection. My heirs would have all the information they would ever need to conduct a fully-informed sale. Nothing shortsighted about it.
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  #13  
Old 06-16-2012, 07:42 AM
markf31 markf31 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Republicaninmass View Post
Originally Posted by birdman42
Second, would I rather spend $500 to have a pile of cards graded, or to buy more cards? Duh.

That says it all.



not using the $500 for grading, you heirs will lose thousands in potential profits, rather short sighted, but I see the point.
I've observed that in general, the difference in realized sales of graded vs non-graded is significant with the stars and high value cards. When you start to get into "commons" the price difference shrinks to almost nothing, and in many cases you would lose money in the end.

I'm working on a T205 set in the VG range. Graded commons in PSA 3 or SGC 40 sell on average for the same price as a raw card that I determine to be VG ($35-$45). If I were to spend $10 to get that raw card graded, I would actually lose money on the deal.
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  #14  
Old 06-15-2012, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by birdman42 View Post

Question for those among us who prefer that their cards breathe freely: Are your convictions so strong that you'll insist that the cards be sold unslabbed after you're gone?

Heck no! I just choose to enjoy my collection raw while I own it, whenever I decide to sell something I have it graded. That's just dumb to leave money on the table.
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  #15  
Old 06-16-2012, 04:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by birdman42 View Post
Question for those among us who prefer that their cards breathe freely: Are your convictions so strong that you'll insist that the cards be sold unslabbed after you're gone?
Ah, to have "convictions so strong that you'll insist that the cards be sold unslabbed after you're gone" would be a neat trick to pull off. Of course, if I could make demands on the living after I died I would be a ghost, zombie or vampire at the time so the executor of my estate would likely be too busy driving a stake through my heart and cutting off my head or otherwise trying to put me back in the grave to pay much attention to my comments about my cards.

But seriously, isn't your whole premise a silly one? Do you really expect anyone to write into their wills a prohibition on their executors slabbing their cards for resale, because that's the only way it would happen. I've seen some pretty specific estate plans but never anything as asinine as that.
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Last edited by Exhibitman; 06-16-2012 at 05:00 AM.
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  #16  
Old 06-15-2012, 11:30 AM
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I have several pretty nice complete sets 205, 206 minus Big 4, 207, 212-1, 212-2, T212-3 and T212-4, etc which are all ungraded. I slab all my caramels, post 1919 cards and T210s but I have many unslabbed sets and some of those cards would grade very highly. To say most of the nice pre-war cards are graded is just wrong.
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  #17  
Old 06-15-2012, 09:12 PM
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Default My cards

I'm a VERY insignificant collector, but probably not out of the ordinary. I have a complete T205 set (208 cards), with only one graded card (Cicotte). My guess is that there are many collectors with similar numbers to that...

Take Care,
Geno
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  #18  
Old 06-15-2012, 09:59 PM
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Default Graded/ungraded

I think there are a lot of cards still ungraded. But, anyone trying to guess percentages is silly. I have some raw cards, but almost all of mine are graded. I think the card companies do a great job, and I don't have to question the authenticity or damaging them. I have mostly caramels, and they're prone to chipping. So, enjoying them in a solid holder is my personal preference. Also, I think it would be unwise to buy or sell any cards that have significant value ungraded, unless you really know the provenance of the card.

Last edited by pcoz; 06-15-2012 at 10:02 PM.
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