Who is Roy Castleton and why is his Autograph So RARE

[jgmp123]

Jim,

Great story....It's great to be acclimated with a player/story that you have never heard before.

Great stuff.

[travrosty]

It would probably cost more to find his autograph than it would be worth. It took me 3.5 years to find former mexican heavyweight champion boxer Manuel Ramos' autograph from deep in mexico and it's probably not worth 100 dollars and it is one of a kind as far as i know.

But if someone wanted to go on a crusade and leave no stone unturned, they could maybe find a R. Castleton autograph. Is it worth it is the question? A guy spent a decade looking for Jim Robinson's boxing autograph and couldn't find one so the prospect of putting in tons of time and money and not getting anything out of it is a possibility that people will weigh before deciding on investing the time/money to find a signature of his. We are trying to find an Charley Retzlaff autograph and looking high and low and nothing, and there should be a few around but connecting the current whereabouts of the autograph to the person looking for it is quite a task sometimes.

That said owning a R. Castleton autograph would be cool and I hope someone does find one.

[JimStinson]

An authentic Roy Castleton autograph would in my opinion sell for anywhere from $1,000-$3,000, at least. As a former Highlander (Yankees) he's on every Yankee's "Want List" I see and also on every single 1907 debut year want list also, Not to mention the Mormon connection.
Baseball autograph collecting is a little different in that very obsure non-hall of famers can command more dollars than big name famers. The autograph of Clancy Smyres who played in only 5 games for the Brooklyn Dodgers in 1944 and died in 2007 would sell for more than Honus Wagner, Rogers Hornsby & Ty Cobb COMBINED.

[mr2686]

To me that's the difference between a collector and an investor. An investor weighs the time and cost of acquiring an item to maximize profit, where a collector doesn't care because it's the thrill of the hunt.

[mr2686]

Jim, what's the deal with Clancy Smyres? Did he not do shows in the 80's or sign by mail. Strange that someone who died in 2007 and lived in or around Los Angeles and played for Brooklyn would not have done at least a couple of shows in the 80's. Was he unable to sign?

[JimStinson]

For reasons known only to Smyres he would not sign, anything. Collectors sent him expensive gifts via certified mail requiring only his signature and he refused them. In the 1990's I called him on the phone and he was very nice on the phone until the word "autograph" came up and he kept saying "Good bye, Good bye", (smile) I was doing private signings then and offered him $5,000 to sign 10 items and he hung up on me. He was perfectly able to sign but steadfastly refused. Since his death I have heard of collectors offering his son far more money than I did for anything signed by his father, and the son (so far) responds the same as his father used to

[travrosty]

What it takes is someone who wants one bad enough to give it an all out blitz and that might be enough to find one. but it takes quite a Herculean effort sometimes.

Try getting an Alfredo Evangelista (Muhammad Ali opponent) autograph, exasperating.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by mr2686

To me that's the difference between a collector and an investor. An investor weighs the time and cost of acquiring an item to maximize profit, where a collector doesn't care because it's the thrill of the hunt.

But investors dont go on crusades like this, only the collector is insane enough to go on a multi-year wild goose chase to find a near impossible autograph like this, but after spending tons of money and time, even a collector has to know when to call it quits, like my friend who spent probably over 10 grand and couldnt find a jim robinson autograph. There is such thing as throwing good money after bad. When you cover about 95% of the bases, the remaining 5% will cost you more than the first 95% ever did, and some autographs just aren't meant to be found. I've went on a few of these chases and have about a 50% hit rate.

Marvin Hart a good example. The very few that are around are either in public institutions like museums or gov't archives, and only a couple in private hands but have been around awhile, but I never see new examples come into the marketplace, I wish they would, finding some of these autograph is like finding sasquatch sometimes. You get a lead but it ends up evaporating before your very eyes.


I found autographs of over 90% of all the champions and challengers for the heavyweight crown unified, wbc, wba, ibf, (and all of them from 1923-1996 except one, leroy jones, and that is a story unto itself.)

You have to do a systematic approach with included geneaology, work history, friends, geographic location, etc. i am quite good at it now and will take on autograph cases if anyone wants a certain one.

[mr2686]

Travis, although I agree with most of what you're saying, I do believe that the internet and social network sites have made the world so small, that almost anything can be found (if it can be found) by just sitting at your computer. There are collectors right here on this site that network all over the U.S and the World and have found some stuff that I would have thought was extinct. All it takes is one person to happen upon an item in someone's collection or yardsale etc, take a picture of it on their smartphone, and then text it to multiple collectors to see if they need it.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by mr2686

Travis, although I agree with most of what you're saying, I do believe that the internet and social network sites have made the world so small, that almost anything can be found (if it can be found) by just sitting at your computer. There are collectors right here on this site that network all over the U.S and the World and have found some stuff that I would have thought was extinct. All it takes is one person to happen upon an item in someone's collection or yardsale etc, take a picture of it on their smartphone, and then text it to multiple collectors to see if they need it.

I don't think that is true with VERY tough to find autographs. thats why they are hard to find. Once you go through the collectors and dealers, then you end up with the super hard to find, like Roy, then you need a specialist who has a systematic approach. we did a search for jim robinson and his autograph like you wouldn't believe, the sane things, the insane things. thousands of man hours, thousands of dollars. Checking every lead. It was totally insane. The guy from espn the magazine wrote a story about it.

No Jim Robinson, no autograph.

You find out all the info on the guy as possible, you run his geneaology reports, you locate all the jobs he had, all the places he lived. you try to contacts relatives, friends, you run ads, you post on forums. its a system.

you have to keep a log or a whiteboard flow chart.

otherwise it is hit and miss and you have to start over, because if you ask around and get nowhere, you will miss the one avenue that could have the answer. It's like looking for a raft on the ocean, they go in a certain pattern, so they dont miss a spot. if they just go here and there, the raft could be in a small area they didnt get to, then they dont know where to go next.

but that's just my ramblings. everyone can have their own opinion about it.

[bender07]

Care to share any of the insane things? Sounds interesting!