Erasing a light pencil mark, altering in a negative manner?

[Texxxx]

OMG, Moving the card at all is altering it!!!

Leon, I think you started this just to watch the fight. LOL

[npa589]

Just to play the part of stirring a cordial pot, this is kind of along the lines of Bruce's post, but, by definition, touching a card alters the card, as is also placing it in a card sleeve, toploader, or "Ultra" pocket sheet. It's affecting the fibers of the card in every way that lead or graphite do, albeit the latter affect it in a more visible and substantial way. How about the fibers from the cardstock that have slightly worn off over the years?

In a way, everyone is correct. I think the wrench in the situation, and the unstated factor in this is TPG. We're analyzing this according to what the grade would be, and, in turn, what the value would be. Is the question actually, how far can one go to "change, or alter the card" before it's considered "cheating" a future buyer?

Just some thoughts, even though I'm not really takign a stance. Ha!

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[glchen]

I voted that erasing the light pencil mark is an alteration. The reason is that I think it's too fine a line to where people are saying that as long as the erasure isn't noticeable under 10x loupe, it's fine. Then what if it were a pen mark that a paper conservator removed where the removal also wasn't noticeable? What if someone were trimming a T206 Wagner or Plank where the trim job wasn't noticeable? If the owner of the card doesn't like the mark on it, sure, he can remove it, but then the card should be advertised as having the mark removed, and let the buyer judge whether that makes a difference in the price he would pay for it.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by glchen

I voted that erasing the light pencil mark is an alteration. The reason is that I think it's too fine a line to where people are saying that as long as the erasure isn't noticeable under 10x loupe, it's fine. Then what if it were a pen mark that a paper conservator removed where the removal also wasn't noticeable? What if someone were trimming a T206 Wagner or Plank where the trim job wasn't noticeable? If the owner of the card doesn't like the mark on it, sure, he can remove it, but then the card should be advertised as having the mark removed, and let the buyer judge whether that makes a difference in the price he would pay for it.

Well, you voted for something that wasn't asked but I think you hit the jest of it anyway. The question was purposely phrased to have the connotation of erasing a mark being a "negative". Of course, technically doing almost anything to a card is altering it. The question is "is it a negative"? This also has no bearing on if the mark can still be seen or not. That too is of no consequence. The question was, and is, "is erasing a mark a "negative" alteration?" And to that, the large majority say "no".

For the record I sold a high 4 figure card to a good friend and board member, after it came out of a PSA 6 MK holder, and after I erased the mark, and it was holdered an SGC 80 (rightfully so, it's a beautiful card). I did disclose the erasure before the sale and the buyer had 0 issue with it. I don't care if someone has erased something from a card I am buying and I don't even care if they tell me or not. That's just me though and I know others want to know.....to each their own.

[steve B]

These are the sort of questions I find I can't answer as asked.

Different cards, different marks, it all makes the issue more complex than the question requires.

A light pencil mark that originally left nearly no physical trace - I don't think removal is a bad thing.
IF
It's done in a way that doesn't damage the card. Some erasers are rougher on the paper surface than others.

A heavy pencil mark might be ok to remove, if for instance it's on the back and erasing it doesn't damage the printed portion. There will still be indentations from the writing, so I wouldn't expect the technical grade to change.
But I have a few T206s with erasures on the front. That's pretty bad, and I would rather they'd left it alone.

Spilled ink or stuff like that- Maybe, it's usually hard for an amateur to remove without doing more damage. Removed, lightened it should still be considered marked.

Some marks are more interesting. Like owners stamps and stuff like that. I would consider removing that sort of mark to be bad, as to me the stamp might be better than the card.

never an "it depends" as an answer........

Steve B

[wonkaticket]

I messed up my vote can I erase and start over?

[Cardboard Junkie]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

I messed up my vote can I erase and start over?

Now THAT is funny!! No erasing though....you have to throw a "meatball" at it! aloha, dave