Not the only Hall of Fame getting Watered Down

[Shoeless Moe]

Janice Jackson, The Cure, Def Leppard, Stevie Nicks, Radiohead, Roxy Music and the Zombies are the 2019 Class for the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame.


The Cure is the Harold Baines of......well you get it.


and what the HELL is Roxy Music??????


Who's next.....White Lion, Dexys Midnight Runners, Billy Ray Cyrus.

[Stampsfan]

I have to say when I heard that earlier, I thought about the HOF discussion going on here.

Seems like the RRHOF is as watered down as one can get. Forget 3,000 hits, you only need a couple of hits to get into the RRHOF.

[riggs336]

"Losing" nominees included John Prine, MC5 and Todd Rundgren.

[moeson]

Pat Benatar somehow doesn't even get nominated:

https://www.niagara-gazette.com/news...726d727ee.html

[ullmandds]

was talking about pat benatar at work today...we all assumed she was in...certainly should be!!!!

[drmondobueno]

Originally Posted by moeson

Pat Benatar somehow doesn't even get nominated:

https://www.niagara-gazette.com/news...726d727ee.html

Warren Zevon has no prayer.

[callou2131]

I went to the RRHOF last year on vacation and was very disappointed. It was neat, but there is so much actual Rock and roll missing while other genres fill rooms. The fact that Iron Maiden, who has influenced so many, and sold 90 million albums with little to know air play has never even been on the ballot is telling. Stevie nicks gets in for the second time, wile Pat Benatar is left off the ballot. And i dont listen to rap, but since they do allow it in there, it is a travesty that LL cool J Has been snubbed by the voters. he was one of the first rap solo artists, has been doing it since 1983, and still does. he is still relevant 35 years later. He has received the Kennedy Center Honors. Public Enemy is in, The Beastie boys are in, Run DMC is in, NWA and Tupac are in. There is only one of the Originals missing and that is LL.

[drcy]

Having a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is like having a Food Hall of Fame. Even if the hot dog or jello or baked Alaska is elected, what is the point and significance, including to the food and the fan of the food? Is a hot dog better because it's a member of the Food Hall of Fame? A Hall of Fame is a bizarre metric.

If you judge or justify the music of The Beatles or Madonna or (fill in the blank) based on whether they are in a private for-profit Hall of Fame, I'd say you have a strange view of music that I can't relate to. To me, a band being a member of the Hall of Fame has nothing to do with nothing.

Duly note that I like bands that both are in and will never ever be in the "Hall," from The Beatles and Led Zeppelin to Discharge and The Television Personalities ("Who?").

[Lordstan]

Ha. It took Rush, Moody Blues, and Yes years to get into RRHOF and now they let these in? Plus the RRHOF seems to be admitting pretty much anyone even peripherally related to RR. Last year or so was Nina Simone. Not in any way takjng away from her recognition, but she was not a RR artist. R&B, Soul, and Blues might all be better descriptors. Perhaps a separate HOF for those artists is needed.

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[gabrinus]

It took Deep Purple years to get in...it's a joke....

[Orioles1954]

The very notion of a "Hall of Fame" for an art with hundreds of genres is so ******* stupid. I'm into mostly britpop/indie, punk, post-punk, etc. Absolutely hate 1970s rock music. Many people are just the opposite. Sports halls of fame are based on interpretation of hard numbers. Music is quite the opposite. By the way, The Cure and The Zombies are awesome.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

The very notion of a "Hall of Fame" for an art with hundreds of genres is so ******* stupid. I'm into mostly britpop/indie, punk, post-punk, etc. Absolutely hate 1970s rock music. Many people are just the opposite. Sports halls of fame are based on interpretation of hard numbers. Music is quite the opposite. By the way, The Cure and The Zombies are awesome.

Wow. So wrong in so many ways. To each their own, but I would say that the late 60's and most of the 70's owned rock. For the most part, with some exceptions, I think the 80's and 90"s are a musical wasteland in that regard. I can't comment beyond that because I don't willingly listen to that stuff. Also disagree with your interpretation of what sports hofs are, or should be. There is much more to it than that IMO.

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

Wow. So wrong in so many ways. To each their own, but I would say that the late 60's and most of the 70's owned rock. For the most part, with some exceptions, I think the 80's and 90"s are a musical wasteland in that regard. I can't comment beyond that because I don't willingly listen to that stuff. Also disagree with your interpretation of what sports hofs are, or should be. There is much more to it than that IMO.

Just one man's opinion. Rock was at its most creative in the late 50s and culminated with the British Invasion. With few exceptions (Hendrix), mainstream rock became so boring as the decades went along. Thankfully, in response to the mainstream, there is always a creative underground to help move things forward. Unfortunately, such subcultures are seldom represented in such a "Hall of Fame." Roxy Music is great.

[JollyElm]

Come on now, The Cure was one of the most preeminent bands of the new wave era and they have a huge amount of great material.

Robert Smith was featured on South Park some time way back when. Cracked me up:
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...A&&FORM=VRDGAR

"Disintegration is the best album ever..."

[frankbmd]

Is Harold Baines in the Rock & Roll HOF yet?

He had a few hits.

[barrysloate]

I thought the same exact thing when I heard who got in this year. There is pressure for any HOF to keep inducting new members on a yearly basis. That's their biggest event of the year, so as time passes the list of inductees gets watered down. I'm not a big fan of any Hall of Fame. Come on folks, Def Leppard?

[Throttlesteer]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I thought the same exact thing when I heard who got in this year. There is pressure for any HOF to keep inducting new members on a yearly basis. That's their biggest event of the year, so as time passes the list of inductees gets watered down. I'm not a big fan of any Hall of Fame. Come on folks, Def Leppard?

They have a top 100 best-selling album of all time. Def Leppard has outsold Stevie Wonder, the Who, David Bowie, and the Beach Boys. Like it or not, they probably belong. The problem is, music is more opinion beyond the sales numbers. I can't stand Jay-Z, but he's sold a ton of music and made millions. The Baseball HOF can lean on statistics, but it still has a number of people inducted because of popularity.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Is Harold Baines in the Rock & Roll HOF yet?

He had a few hits.

how 'bout Ike Turner


sorry...had to...



=

[2dueces]

Janet Jackson? Really? Over Pat Benetar? Really?

[Paul S]

Is there a GAR algorithm (Groups Against Replacement), so we can compare across genres? Or is it a algrhythm. I get so messed up with it all.

[JLange]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

"Disintegration is the best album ever..."

+1

[KingFisk]

Roxy Music is one of my top 5 bands of all time. Where Brian Eno cut his teeth, and they had a string of four or five flawless albums in the 70s. They've deserved induction for a long time.

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[Klrdds]

I agree the RRHOF is getting watered down . I can never recall when their class had less than 5 inductees. After awhile you'll get watered down doing that because there can only be so many worthy people to induct until you start inducting peripheral artists and associated groups, singers , etc...

[Orioles1954]

Any Hall of Fame without The Smiths is not worthy to stand.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by KingFisk

Roxy Music is one of my top 5 bands of all time. Where Brian Eno cut his teeth, and they had a string of four or five flawless albums in the 70s. They've deserved induction for a long time.

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In 2005, Tim de Lisle of The Guardian argued that Roxy Music are the second most influential British band after the Beatles. He wrote, "Somehow, in a landscape dominated by Led Zeppelin at one end and the Osmonds at the other, they managed to reach the Top 10 with a heady mixture of futurism, retro rock'n'roll, camp, funny noises, silly outfits, art techniques, film references and oboe solos. And although their popularity has ebbed and flowed, their influence has been strikingly consistent."[9]

Madness are among the artists that have cited Roxy Music as an influence.[47] They paid tribute to Bryan Ferry in the song "4BF" (the title is a reference to the song "2HB", itself a tribute to Humphrey Bogart from the first Roxy Music album).

In 1997, John Taylor of Duran Duran produced the tribute album Dream Home Heartaches... Remaking/Remodeling Roxy Music. The compilation features Taylor as well as Dave Gahan (Depeche Mode) and Low Pop Suicide, among others.

The earliest incarnation of the band that would eventually become Sex Pistols was called The Strand, after "Do The Strand", the opening song from Roxy Music's second album, For Your Pleasure.

The electronic band Ladytron took their name from the title of a song from Roxy Music's debut album.[48]

An antagonist character in the videogame Final Fight named Roxy (a female acrobatic fighter) is named after the band, as well as other enemy characters in the game that pay homage to someone or something related to music, like her identical partner Poison.

These are just some of the credits and influences Roxy Music had on the music world. They are a European band more than anything else, and therefore not always as well known or recognized in the U.S. Roxy Music deserves to be in the RRHOF for their album covers alone!!!!!!!

Now if the Rock Hall could only get their you-know-what together and look at Hawkwind also, then you'd get some more respect!

[rats60]

Originally Posted by BobC

In 2005, Tim de Lisle of The Guardian argued that Roxy Music are the second most influential British band after the Beatles. He wrote, "Somehow, in a landscape dominated by Led Zeppelin at one end and the Osmonds at the other, they managed to reach the Top 10 with a heady mixture of futurism, retro rock'n'roll, camp, funny noises, silly outfits, art techniques, film references and oboe solos. And although their popularity has ebbed and flowed, their influence has been strikingly consistent."[9]

Madness are among the artists that have cited Roxy Music as an influence.[47] They paid tribute to Bryan Ferry in the song "4BF" (the title is a reference to the song "2HB", itself a tribute to Humphrey Bogart from the first Roxy Music album).

In 1997, John Taylor of Duran Duran produced the tribute album Dream Home Heartaches... Remaking/Remodeling Roxy Music. The compilation features Taylor as well as Dave Gahan (Depeche Mode) and Low Pop Suicide, among others.

The earliest incarnation of the band that would eventually become Sex Pistols was called The Strand, after "Do The Strand", the opening song from Roxy Music's second album, For Your Pleasure.

The electronic band Ladytron took their name from the title of a song from Roxy Music's debut album.[48]

An antagonist character in the videogame Final Fight named Roxy (a female acrobatic fighter) is named after the band, as well as other enemy characters in the game that pay homage to someone or something related to music, like her identical partner Poison.

These are just some of the credits and influences Roxy Music had on the music world. They are a European band more than anything else, and therefore not always as well known or recognized in the U.S. Roxy Music deserves to be in the RRHOF for their album covers alone!!!!!!!

Now if the Rock Hall could only get their you-know-what together and look at Hawkwind also, then you'd get some more respect!

And you didn't even mention Brian Eno and his influence on David Bowie, Talking Heads and U2's music among many others.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by rats60

And you didn't even mention Brian Eno and his influence on David Bowie, Talking Heads and U2's music among many others.

Shouldn't have to, but you're right. Used to stay up late nights and listen to songs of theirs here in Cleveland on the then progressive FM station WMMS, long before they ever made it big. And again, just check out the album covers!!!!!

[JollyElm]

One of my best ever "random music pickups" (as I like to call them) was grabbing Bryan Ferry/Roxy Music “Street Life” 20 Greatest Hits in a discount bin in the 90's. Like everyone else, I knew the hits from the "Avalon" album and a couple of other things, but songs like "Oh Yeah (On The Radio)" and "Over You" were new to me and jumped right out.

(For anybody who cares, two others great random pickups were Alice in Chains "Nothing Safe: Best Of The Box" and The Alarm's EP "Electric Folklore Live.")

[Fred]

Originally Posted by KingFisk

Roxy Music is one of my top 5 bands of all time. Where Brian Eno cut his teeth, and they had a string of four or five flawless albums in the 70s. They've deserved induction for a long time.

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Not one of my top 5, but I think they should be in. Don't forget about Bryan Ferry.

It's really not a R&R HOF. It's a MUSIC HOF. R&R, R&B, c-RAP, etc are all genres represented.

For those of you waiting for the Todd Rundgrens and Pat Benetars (and others) to be enshrined, perhaps you'll have to wait for the RRHOF Veterans Committee to meet and give them their due entry.

What about Tit Wrench...

[Bram99]

No one has mentioned the fact that concept of halls of fame itself is being watered down. The Mascot Hall of Fame will open soon in Whiting, IN.

Who should be the inaugural (that means first) class?

Bernie Brewer?

Dartmouth’s Keggy the Keg?


http://mascothalloffame.com

[tjb1952tjb]

Originally Posted by Bram99

No one has mentioned the fact that concept of halls of fame itself is being watered down. The Mascot Hall of Fame will open soon in Whiting, IN.

Who should be the inaugural (that means first) class?

Bernie Brewer?

Dartmouth’s Keggy the Keg?


http://mascothalloffame.com

The San Diego Chicken..............

[Baseball Rarities]

The Cure and Roxy Music are both very deserving IMHO. I agree that it has become more of a Pop Music HOF than and RnR HOF though.

[DaveW]

Originally Posted by Bram99

No one has mentioned the fact that concept of halls of fame itself is being watered down. The Mascot Hall of Fame will open soon in Whiting, IN.

Who should be the inaugural (that means first) class?

Bernie Brewer?

Dartmouth’s Keggy the Keg?

http://mascothalloffame.com

So, does Charlie the Tuna qualify as a Mascot - if so, he’s definately in. Or is
he more of a spokesfish?

[drcy]

I'm a Cure fan, but, to be honest, it makes no difference to me if they are in a Hall or not. They were an alternative band. Being elected members of a Hall of Fame would be totally against what was the intent and philosophy of an anti-establishment band like the Sex Pistols. And if you've ever heard an interview of Robert Smith, you'd know he'd be the first to scoff at the idea of being elected to a music Hall of Fame. You should hear what he said about the British Royalty and Royal titles when someone asked if he would ever be knighted.

But, if there is a deserving band, Roxy Music would be one. I'm surprised there's a debate about that and was surprised to learn they weren't already elected.

But, to each his own, and, as they say, art is in the eye of the beholder.

Personally, I see the merits of a Rock and Roll museum, but an elected Rock and Roll "Hall of Fame" always seemed like a dumb idea on its very face to me. No doubt it was concocted at least in part to make money (sell tickets). Thus, whether or not my favorite bands are members of a dumb idea makes no difference to me. In fact, if I had to choose, I'd prefer they not be members.

But yes, I also saw the point (and humor) of the initial post that the first wave included bands such as The Beatles, The Rolling Stones and Elvis Presley, and now its The Cure and Def Leppard. Whether or not I am a fan of The Cure and Roxy Music, I won't argue that it appears that they running low on bands. It may become a common running joke after a few more elections. Someone in Cleveland may be trying to figure out how they can elect The Beatles and Elvis a second time.

One problem with many Halls of Fame, including MLB and Rock and Roll, is they feel compelled to elect someone each year no matter what. But they won't do that because the inductions are money making events. It would of course be refreshing if the Baseball or Rock HOF, or Nobel Prize committee, would occasionally say "Sorry, no one deserving this year." But the Cleveland and Cooperstown Chamber of Commerce wouldn't like that. After retirement, Mickey Mantle said he became wary of awards because he deduced that most of them were attempts to get him to attend their dinner or event.

[Chris-Counts]

I'd take the Cure over Harold Baines.

[ajquigs]

Originally Posted by KingFisk

Roxy Music is one of my top 5 bands of all time. Where Brian Eno cut his teeth, and they had a string of four or five flawless albums in the 70s. They've deserved induction for a long time.

Indeed.
The R&R HOF is a joke. Roxy Music ... not so much.
To me, it's a pretty decent museum. Even it doesn't seem to take the physical "Hall" seriously.

[BobC]

and what the HELL is Roxy Music??????



If you don't know who Roxy Music is, you probably shouldn't be commenting about rock music at all.

[milkit1]

Amen! BOB C


QUOTE=BobC;1835712]and what the HELL is Roxy Music??????



If you don't know who Roxy Music is, you probably shouldn't be commenting about rock music at all. [/QUOTE]

[commishbob]

Dammmit, I love Nina Simone


But your point is taken.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by BobC

and what the HELL is Roxy Music??????



If you don't know who Roxy Music is, you probably shouldn't be commenting about rock music at all.

Yeah, not an egging on but whoa...Roxy Music is the most deserving nominee on that list.

[dgtom]

I second that thought. Chuck Berry influenced so many bands, that virtually every band that has ever mattered has had Chuck Berry cover songs that they either recorded, or had as part of their live repertoire. The Rolling Stones would not exist as a band without playing Chuck Berry songs at the beginning of their career, as they didn’t start writing their own songs until their second or third album.

[KingFisk]

I am also excited about Roxy getting in because I feel like a lot of folks are now going to check them out, and get to experience them for the first time, beyond Love is the Drug or More Than This. Bryan Ferry is a treasure as a singer (a voice on another spiritual plane) and songwriter (does it get any better than Mother of Pearl?). He's been making magic happen for a very long time, glad to see him getting his due stateside.

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[BobC]

Originally Posted by KingFisk

I am also excited about Roxy getting in because I feel like a lot of folks are now going to check them out, and get to experience them for the first time, beyond Love is the Drug or More Than This. Bryan Ferry is a treasure as a singer (a voice on another spiritual plane) and songwriter (does it get any better than Mother of Pearl?). He's been making magic happen for a very long time, glad to see him getting his due stateside.

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

Mother of Pearl is one of my all-time favorite songs, couldn't agree more. And Both Ends Burning is also one great tune, amongst all the others.

Now like I mentioned before, they need to start looking at Hawkwind for induction!!!!

[Promethius88]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Janice Jackson, The Cure, Def Leppard, Stevie Nicks, Radiohead, Roxy Music and the Zombies are the 2019 Class for the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame.


The Cure is the Harold Baines of......well you get it.


and what the HELL is Roxy Music??????


Who's next.....White Lion, Dexys Midnight Runners, Billy Ray Cyrus.

Who is Janice Jackson??? Lol!
Instead of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, they should just rename it to the Music Hall of Fame or something more generic. I don't have a problem with some of these influential artists going in as their music may have meant so much to a certain generation or group of people. We aren't going to like or agree with all of them but we all have individual tastes, and that's ok. There was no legit reason for it to take so long for Rush or the Moody Blues to get in....two of my favorite bands and no arguing that they are legends in the industry.
Was in Cleveland for one of the Nationals and stopped by. Very interesting place with a lot of cool stuff. I don't think it is still there, but there was a reggae museum in Long Beach at one time down by the Queen Mary. Checked that out and was interviewed by some Jamaican music reporters. That was an amazing eye opening experience. First that I realized how political Bob Marley actually was. I'm sure they scrubbed my interview. Pretty sure I sounded like an idiot!!

[chalupacollects]

It's not a true RRHoF until Rick Springfield can get in without paying ! lol

[JollyElm]

The Hall of Fame in Cooperstown is Mt. Rushmore, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland is just a rocky (pun intended) hill. Musical tastes are completely individual and run the gamut from yodelers to death metal. There's never going to be any sort of consensus as to whom or what deserves to be honored in a Hall of Fame celebrating sounds. (There are a heckuva lot of bands, singers, etc., in this thread alone that make me think, "Who would ever listen to them??!!," but that's life, whatever floats your boat.)
Cleveland should probably be more accurately called 'The Hall of Musical Appreciation,' and then a lot of the contention would abate.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by Promethius88

Who is Janice Jackson??? Lol!

Whoops....at least I got The Cured, Roxie Muzak and Deaf Leppard correct.

[Yastrzemski Sports]

Shoeless Moe

The Cure is the Harold Baines of......well you get it.
and what the HELL is Roxy Music??????

Hi everyone. After reading this post I wanted to make my first ever post on the board to talk about this. Since I was 13, my favorite band is The Cure. If you don’t enjoy their music - that’s your opinion. No performer’s music is for everyone. The Cure has produced a ton of albums, had a lot of billboard hits, have a strong legion of fans and this is their 40th anniversary as a band so they are doing something right. Glad they made it.

I have also been a long time supporter of Harold Baines and Lee Smith. Smith’s accomplishments as baseball’s greatest reliever for several years stands on its own. Baines put up some pretty impressive career numbers. My support for Baines is largely based on the assumption that if there were no strikes in 1981 and 1994 and he had that time back he would have 3000 hits and 400 home runs and there would be no question of his accomplishments. His numbers are better than Tony Perez for comparison to a current member. I take issue with the sportswriters who didn’t see this and vote for him when he was on the ballot.

To me, the 2019 inductees have earned their spots and are deserving of the honor and the institutions are better for having them.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports

Smith’s accomplishments as baseball’s greatest reliever for several years stands on its own.

What exactly were the several years where Smith was baseball's greatest reliever?

[Yastrzemski Sports]

Originally Posted by Tabe

What exactly were the several years where Smith was baseball's greatest reliever?

Lee Smith was the all time saves leader from 1993-2006. Still 3rd all time.