Outed cards, now including a 130K gain on an Aaron rookie

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

correct..if there are no lawsuits its not enough of a problem...usually even when there are no criminal charges there are at least civil lawsuits...if you dont see any civil lawsuits then you can forget criminal charges etc..

its a problem even if no lawsuits but i would worry about problems where there are actual lawsuits and criminal charges more than on problems where there aren't

Do you think lawsuits occur before or after a plaintiff attempts to get his money refunded?

Do you think criminal charges are brought before or after law enforcement completes its investigation?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Do you think lawsuits occur before or after a plaintiff attempts to get his money refunded?

Do you think criminal charges are brought before or after law enforcement completes its investigation?

DNFTT, as they say. It's so absurd as to not warrant comment at this point.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I'm defending a case right now that was filed almost 2 years after a merger, claiming shareholders of the acquired company got shortchanged. I guess if Jake had been advising the client he would have told them to rest easy a few days after the closing. No lawsuit, no problem.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I'm defending a case right now that was filed almost 2 years after a merger, claiming shareholders of the acquired company got shortchanged. I guess if Jake had been advising the client he would have told them to rest easy a few days after the closing. No lawsuit, no problem.

Maybe he practices in a jurisdiction where the statute of limitations is only a week? Mars perhaps?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Maybe he practices in a jurisdiction where the statute of limitations is only a week? Mars perhaps?

Less gravity may translate to a shorter limitations period.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Do you think lawsuits occur before or after a plaintiff attempts to get his money refunded?

Do you think criminal charges are brought before or after law enforcement completes its investigation?

Well BP oil spill there were lawsuits next week....not comparing cards to that but you are acting like its unrealistic to have lawsuits filed in a month...its not uncommon to have lawsuits filed in a week. Its been more than a month..how long do you think isn't too long? 3 months? 4 months? You tell me..

I agree if money is refunded and all the buyers are happy there wont be lawsuits thus far there are no lawsuits.

law enforcement completing its investigation? Civil suits occur much faster than that. As stated, there may be no criminal cases but there always are civil cases if its a real problem. If theres a criminal case there WILL be civil cases of course.

Also there are people that dont care what is offered and they want a lawsuit filed to make everything public instead of signing a release and be silent. I think theres a large enough sample size of buyers that were wronged that the all wont be satisfied with a refund and going quietly etc if its truly a big deal in the hobby

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I'm defending a case right now that was filed almost 2 years after a merger, claiming shareholders of the acquired company got shortchanged. I guess if Jake had been advising the client he would have told them to rest easy a few days after the closing. No lawsuit, no problem.

I agree cases can be filed a day before the Statute of Limitations but if this is such a big issue and deep and rich with so many people burned. i would think someone will file a case before 2 years. Heck someone sued the Spurs for not playing their Starters a few years back and it was a day or so after it happened.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Someone may yet sue. They would have to first submit the card to PSA under the guarantee, and PSA would have to decline to honor the guarantee, before any claim would be ripe. That is going to take time. The guarantee does not require PSA to review a card within X days does it?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Someone may yet sue. They would have to first submit the card to PSA under the guarantee, and PSA would have to decline to honor the guarantee, before any claim would be ripe. That is going to take time. The guarantee does not require PSA to review a card within X days does it?

I know a lot of card buyers that are pretty impatient. If a card is late a few days they go nuts. If you thought you lost 5k? How long would you wait around. 3 months? I guess i am asking what time frame do you think is a reasonable time that you would agree that it would appear strange no lawsuits are filed and/or that appears refunds are being paid to everyone's satisfaction so no lawsuits are filed. Dont tell me a year..

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I know a lot of card buyers that are pretty impatient. If a card is late a few days they go nuts. If you thought you lost 5k? How long would you wait around. 3 months?

If I sent the card back on day 1 I would still have to wait for them to review it, which might well take 3 months given their turnaround times.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If I sent the card back on day 1 I would still have to wait for them to review it, which might well take 3 months given their turnaround times.

Id like to hear one person on net54, who actually is in that situation say they are willing to wait 3 months for a review on their card.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Id like to hear one person on net54, who actually is in that situation say they are willing to wait 3 months for a review on their card.

What choice is there? Are you going to sue PSA for not reviewing your card fast enough when there is no document obligating them to review within a particular time? Sounds like a great cause of action. It would get tossed in a minute and you might get sanctioned.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

What choice is there? Are you going to sue PSA for not reviewing your card fast enough when there is no document obligating them to review within a particular time? Sounds like a great cause of action. It would get tossed in a minute and you might get sanctioned.

Mr Spaeth you need to take your own advice.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Mr Spaeth you need to take your own advice.

I know. Don't I know it.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Less gravity may translate to a shorter limitations period.

The Mars day IS somewhat shorter than ours...

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

What choice is there? Are you going to sue PSA for not reviewing your card fast enough when there is no document obligating them to review within a particular time? Sounds like a great cause of action. It would get tossed in a minute and you might get sanctioned.

So they can take 5 years, what choice do you have...

IF PSA acted so badly, it wouldnt be a lawsuit about how long it is taking to review the card, it would be about them giving a certain grade (and im sure lawyers will come up with other defendants and other issues if there would be any actual lawsuits fi this was a real problem). If all of this is pointless and there is no cause of action, again no lawsuits, and whats the point ... sounds like they have no cause of action..

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

OK, can someone please file a lawsuit to please Jake?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

OK, can someone please file a lawsuit to please Jake?

Right, apparently everyone is willing to wait 3 months or years to wait to see what PSA will say because what choice to they have or everyone is getting satisfied with what they are being offered because we all know people in the hobby always agree on what the value of a card should be..

[steve B]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

correct..if there are no lawsuits its not enough of a problem...usually even when there are no criminal charges there are at least civil lawsuits...if you dont see any civil lawsuits then you can forget criminal charges etc..

its a problem even if no lawsuits but i would worry about problems where there are actual lawsuits and criminal charges more than on problems where there aren't

I was trying to point out how ridiculous the idea that there's no problem because nobody has sued anyone yet is.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by steve B

I was trying to point out how ridiculous the idea that there's no problem because nobody has sued anyone yet is.

Good luck with that.

[Peter_Spaeth]

E121 Ruth 17K gain. SGC. Also graded at National. Good show.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3405

And featured by SGC on Facebook.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3407

[steve B]

Let me guess how this goes.

Lets say me... Lawyer X, I've been defrauded out of $2000. I want to sue!
Lawyer X. Did you try to get your money back
Me no, I'm too mad and want to sue!

Maybe make the next line by lawyer X multiple choice
a)Security!
b)The small claims forms are online/At the courthouse
c) show yourself out, I'd do it, but that would only make your bill larger.
d) Of course! My retainer is $XXXXX
e) Of course! I haven't lost one in a while and it's good to stay humble.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

E121 Ruth 17K gain. SGC. Also graded at National. Good show.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3405

And featured by SGC on Facebook.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3407

WTF. They spotted the nearly invisible erasure on a T206 I'd owned since the early 80's but didn't spot that one?

Why do I always get the graders that can see?

Or do I need to tape a 50 to the card saver?

[ullmandds]

that e121 ruth was once mine!!! i sold it through REA a few years ago. It was pen on the back.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by steve B

WTF. They spotted the nearly invisible erasure on a T206 I'd owned since the early 80's but didn't spot that one?

Why do I always get the graders that can see?

Or do I need to tape a 50 to the card saver?

Or give to Brent to submit?

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Or give to Brent to submit?

I really shouldn't complain, the card is still a really nice looking common, I'd hoped for a 50, maybe 60 and it still got a 40 even with the erasure.

But the one on that Ruth is really bad. It may look ok ish, but the contrast enhanced view it stands out much more than the light stains.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I had a buddy submit a gorgeous T3 to SGC they caught erased pencil that I missed and had to use a loop to be sure I was really seeing it.

Things that make you go hmmmmmm.

[Johnny630]

Taking stains off of backs and fronts have been going on for 30 years + and removing lead
Never has it been right but it’s been done for a long time....it’s just now being exposed

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

E121 Ruth 17K gain. SGC. Also graded at National. Good show.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3405

And featured by SGC on Facebook.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3407

It looks like REA sold it prior to being altered. I wonder if Brent bought it, as he did the WWG DiMaggio.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It looks like REA sold it prior to being altered. I wonder if Brent bought it, as he did the WWG DiMaggio.

I know someone who'd know who bought it!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I know someone who'd know who bought it!

Someone who knew told me who bought the DiMaggio, but I'm not sure history will repeat itself.

[Peter_Spaeth]

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3429

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by steve B

Let me guess how this goes.

Lets say me... Lawyer X, I've been defrauded out of $2000. I want to sue!
Lawyer X. Did you try to get your money back
Me no, I'm too mad and want to sue!

Maybe make the next line by lawyer X multiple choice
a)Security!
b)The small claims forms are online/At the courthouse
c) show yourself out, I'd do it, but that would only make your bill larger.
d) Of course! My retainer is $XXXXX
e) Of course! I haven't lost one in a while and it's good to stay humble.

Tell that do the buyer of that 60k card that sold for 5k months earlier in an much lower graded holder and there are before and after pictures of an alteration... Just an example, just saying there are more examples of people that bought altered cards than guys that bought cards for less than 1000, plus people may of bought more than one 'issue' card which adds up

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by steve B

I was trying to point out how ridiculous the idea that there's no problem because nobody has sued anyone yet is.

Doesnt mean its a problem. but there are problems and there are PROBLEMs....its not like the united states is not a litigious country. Always here stories of people suing for anything with disregard to costs and their time.

Theres a been a whole lot of talk with zero lawsuits..

[tschock]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Always here stories of people suing for anything with disregard to costs and their time.

Man bites dog.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by tschock

Man bites dog.

When my daughter was very little she bit my wife. My wife bit her back. My daughter never bit again (true story).

[Peter_Spaeth]

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...90614&page=146

[Peter_Spaeth]

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3651

[Misunderestimated]

Was there any discernible drop off in the prices of the cards at the last PWCC auction for the "prime cards".etc . I know it's not much of a sample size yet. I just wondered and it seems like there are people paying attention on the message boards.

[Peter_Spaeth]

According to this BO post, the page listing team members was taken down.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3692

[Peter_Spaeth]

T206 Young 3 to 5.5

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3708

[Peter_Spaeth]

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3726

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

T206 Young 3 to 5.5

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3708

That would be a 5k+ improvement in value. I would just to keep a separate list for these types of cards.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3726

a 10k gain..add that one to the 5k and up list..

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

That would be a 5k+ improvement in value. I would just to keep a separate list for these types of cards.

Good idea, please do.

[Peter_Spaeth]

A couple of 48 Leaf Musial rookies.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...90614&page=151

[jad22]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

A couple of 48 Leaf Musial rookies.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...90614&page=151

Going back 11 years. Geez.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Leaf Musial day it seems.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3776

[jad22]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Leaf Musial day it seems.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3776

Is 2008 the earliest one they have shown? Going to be impossible to get a firm handle on this. Well over a decade of flooding into the market.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by jad22

Is 2008 the earliest one they have shown? Going to be impossible to get a firm handle on this. Well over a decade of flooding into the market.

I've lost track. But I assure you this all was happening long before 2008, and that there are many more card doctors who haven't left the same paper trail, if that's any comfort.