SGC grading is super fast.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I wonder how much of CSG's business is accounted for by the PWCC partnership?

[parkplace33]

That is a huge decline for SGC. Due to the PSA price reduction?

[BobbyStrawberry]

I can't help but wonder if an SGC price drop is coming.. (on their grading services, I mean)

[pkaufman]

I would personally like to see SGC's re-holder fee reduced. It would seem to be much less work to re-holder a card, than to grade one. Yet there is a $30 fee for both services at the base level. I thought the $10 re-holder fee they charged in the past was fair.

[chadeast]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

I can't help but wonder if an SGC price drop is coming.. (on their grading services, I mean)

It has to be coming. Their turnaround times in the past few months have been extremely fast. I've been sitting on a pile of cards for well over a year now, just waiting for the inevitable drop in demand for grading. My guess is that the next price drop will be in the $15-20 range, in which case I'll still be waiting.

[BobC]

What would really be telling and extremely more informational is if we could get a breakdown on those graded card numbers by the various TPGs. For example, modern sports cards, vintage/pre-war sports cards, TGC cards, etc. I think if they broke those numbers out it could possibly tell a different story.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BobC

What would really be telling and extremely more informational is if we could get a breakdown on those graded card numbers by the various TPGs. For example, modern sports cards, vintage/pre-war sports cards, TGC cards, etc. I think if they broke those numbers out it could possibly tell a different story.

PSA is probably 90 percent modern or more.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

PSA is probably 90 percent modern or more.

That's why I mentioned it. It could end up showing one TPG is not going up, or down, across the board, and only in certain categories of cards. Having that info would be more telling and informative than just a gross total number of graded cards.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BobC

That's why I mentioned it. It could end up showing one TPG is not going up, or down, across the board, and only in certain categories of cards. Having that info would be more telling and informative than just a gross total number of graded cards.

The fallacy of composition?

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The fallacy of composition?

In any case I cannot imagine they can be leading in any category with numbers like that. I honestly really enjoy the SGC product but those numbers are catastrophic.

With their history of work they should be in 2nd, during the PSA hold they had every opportunity on earth to advance their footprint in modern and have apparently failed miserably. People were submitting and the listings had grown for modern sgc on eBay. Leadership should be analyzing where these marketing failures fall and make changes.

I am hoping this is a blip as the sample size is so small and is related to the PSA pricing changes and they remedy immediately. A trend like that, if it continues, is a very poor sign of health.

[Snowman]

Surely, PSA's advantage is a combination of factors. First-mover advantage certainly helps, plus the registry, and having slabs that don't look like they were bought from the dollar store all play a role. The registry is huge though. It creates dual demand which creates pricing separation from SGC on widely collected sets like 33 Goudey, 52-56 Topps, 48 Leaf, Cracker Jacks, T206s, etc. All the key cards in these sets sell for significant premiums over SGC solely because of the added set collector pressure on the market. This has a trickle-down effect on other sectors of the market as newcomers.

I'm really interested in how CSG does in the future though. IMO, they are doing just about everything right. Their slabs are so much better than everyone else's, their new flips are nice, and their grading scale is accurate and consistent in my experience.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by JustinD

In any case I cannot imagine they can be leading in any category with numbers like that. I honestly really enjoy the SGC product but those numbers are catastrophic.

With their history of work they should be in 2nd, during the PSA hold they had every opportunity on earth to advance their footprint in modern and have apparently failed miserably. People were submitting and the listings had grown for modern sgc on eBay. Leadership should be analyzing where these marketing failures fall and make changes.

I am hoping this is a blip as the sample size is so small and is related to the PSA pricing changes and they remedy immediately. A trend like that, if it continues, is a very poor sign of health.

SGC is in a tough spot though. Their problem is almost entirely the slab itself. They would need a complete redesign in order to gain market share in modern cards and with younger collectors. There's a reason the kids all refer them as "dollar store slabs". They can't really just up and change it now. Or rather they can't change it for vintage. I suppose they could try to come up with a new design and only use those new slabs on cards from 1980+ or something like that, while still keeping the tux for vintage stuff. Maybe that's their best chance? But I don't know if that would work either.

Personally, I like the tux look. But I definitely understand why others don't. But I do dislike how unnecessarily bulky they feel, and I don't like the fact that they create awkward storage problems.

[Oscar_Stanage]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Personally, I like the tux look. But I definitely understand why others don't. But I do dislike how unnecessarily bulky they feel, and I don't like the fact that they create awkward storage problems.

I have done all my grading with SGC, and even steered toward buying SGC when possible. However, the size of the slabs is definitely an issue. With almost 200 graded cards, I am now probably going to pivot to PSA.
This was a very bad decision not to go with thinner, sleeker slabs when they did the re-design.

[ClementeFanOh]

To anyone who cares (I know the target audience is small)-

On August 1, I submitted a small tobacco group to SGC as a test to see if
there are being as hard on those as vintage, and for turnaround time. The
cards arrive tomorrow. The details:

1) T206 Doc Adkins- I guessed a 2, it's coming back a 2. Dead on.

2) E101 Bill Bergen- I guessed 1.5, it's coming back 1.5. Dead on.

3) T206 Harry McIntyre- I guessed 5, it's coming back "A" so there's
something they found that I didn't. Bummer but I'm certainly not
infallible.

4) Total turnaround time 26 days, mailbox to mailbox.

It looks like they don't crucify tobacco like vintage, so much of my
buys will be slabbed in the future (as it's been for awhile). For what
it is worth

Trent King

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

To anyone who cares (I know the target audience is small)-

On August 1, I submitted a small tobacco group to SGC as a test to see if
there are being as hard on those as vintage, and for turnaround time. The
cards arrive tomorrow. The details:

1) T206 Doc Adkins- I guessed a 2, it's coming back a 2. Dead on.

2) E101 Bill Bergen- I guessed 1.5, it's coming back 1.5. Dead on.

3) T206 Harry McIntyre- I guessed 5, it's coming back "A" so there's
something they found that I didn't. Bummer but I'm certainly not
infallible.

4) Total turnaround time 26 days, mailbox to mailbox.

It looks like they don't crucify tobacco like vintage, so much of my
buys will be slabbed in the future (as it's been for awhile). For what
it is worth

Trent King

Thanks for the follow up, Trent. My experience has been on the lower grade cards that actually show obvious wear, flaws, etc that they are spot on. It is on vintage cards that appear NM or better I see them landing in 5s and 6s. If it were a small number I would chalk it up to a small wrinkle, etc but the volume of cards I have been able to pick up and examine inside and outside the holder, simply makes no sense the cards are ending up beaten down like this. In many cases they are 1 or 2 grades higher than cards with fully rounded corners, wrinkles, stains or other obvious flaws.

Hey PSA is doing the same thing right now.

[ClementeFanOh]

Lorewalker- you are welcome. My faith in SGC with prewar remains strong.
You are spot on re: vintage. It's bizarre and, frankly, ridiculous for the 2
main TPGs to continue this "flaw fest", specifically directed at one era. I'm
holding magnificent, raw 1976 Topps HOFers that I wouldn't dream
of submitting to anyone right now. The idea of some nerd finding a 1/16
inch bump on the reverse and dinging the grade 2 full points, doesn't sit
well with me. Both companies need to unscrew themselves in that arena-
before I submit again, at least.

Trent King

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh

Lorewalker- you are welcome. My faith in SGC with prewar remains strong.
You are spot on re: vintage. It's bizarre and, frankly, ridiculous for the 2
main TPGs to continue this "flaw fest", specifically directed at one era. I'm
holding magnificent, raw 1976 Topps HOFers that I wouldn't dream
of submitting to anyone right now. The idea of some nerd finding a 1/16
inch bump on the reverse and dinging the grade 2 full points, doesn't sit
well with me. Both companies need to unscrew themselves in that arena-
before I submit again, at least.

Trent King

Could not agree with you more, Trent. Spot on. Dunno what is going on with them but I have more than 1,000 vintage mid to high grade stars and high grade commons 1930s to 1960s to submit but they will sit in my safe until they relent. Not interested in seeing NM cards in EX holders.

Chase