1952 Topps Mickey Mantle PSA 8 in PWCC Auction

[jackwesq]

Hi everyone. My apologies as this is post WWII card, but PWCC has the below 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle PSA 8 in their next auction. Will be interesting to watch the bidding.

[Steve D]

That exact card was just sold in Heritage's auction on Feb 24, 2019 (less than 4 1/2 months ago), for $456K.


Steve

[Republicaninmass]

Unimprovable condition!

[swarmee]

#becausewetried

Nice card; consignor must be tone deaf or unaware of the current scandal.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by swarmee

#becausewetried

Nice card; consignor must be tone deaf or unaware of the current scandal.

The consignor might be aware of the current situation and not care. It could be a planned sale. It could be sold for a number of reasons.

This scandal is going to blow over just like every storm in the hobby has up to this point.

I am surprised so many people think this is going to be the demise of high grade trading cards.

The 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle is the ultimate symbol of Americana and the price might be higher or it might be lower but you are never going to see the demand for this card evaporate.

There are some who have been calling for PWCC to cancel all of their auctions and others who hope Brent ends up in jail. This might be the ultimate FU saying we still get the goods.

One revelation from this recent situation we have confirmed is that you can use a hidden reserve on PWCC auctions so the odds of this going cheap are quite low I believe.

[bobbyw8469]

This might be the ultimate FU saying we still get the goods.

I still believe this will go lower than the Heritage auction. The consignor will lose a big chunk of money and think to himself, "Why the hell did I consign with them? I don't need any help in losing money". That's just my prediction though.

[MULLINS5]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

This scandal is going to blow over just like every storm in the hobby has up to this point.

I am surprised so many people think this is going to be the demise of high grade trading cards.

The 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle is the ultimate symbol of Americana and the price might be higher or it might be lower but you are never going to see the demand for this card evaporate.

There are some who have been calling for PWCC to cancel all of their auctions and others who hope Brent ends up in jail. This might be the ultimate FU saying we still get the goods.

One revelation from this recent situation we have confirmed is that you can use a hidden reserve on PWCC auctions so the odds of this going cheap are quite low I believe.

It will not be the demise for graded, but I think a correction is on the way. It won't be overnight.

In general, yes, the 52 Mantle will always be a symbol of Americana. Demand will not evaporate. This particular Mantle's final sale price is tainted, as well as ALL of PWCC'S prices.

Bobby at VCP should remove all PWCC sales prices from their services. Keeping the sales data on his site is knowingly selling false data to his customers. At the very least there should be a PWCC disclaimer. The push for this is coming.

It's not an "FU" to those who want justice. To my knowledge, this Mantle wasn't advertised like previous high "calibur" cards. A 52 Mantle PSA 8 would be pushed on all social media outlets, email blitzes, etc. Correct me if I'm wrong but it just popped up on their next auction with little to no push? It's likely a Brent card being sold to pay attorney fees and reimburse customers for cards THEY altered.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

There are some who have been calling for PWCC to cancel all of their auctions and others who hope Brent ends up in jail.

I am one of these people. Every time they continue to sell a tainted PSA card, they increase PSA's liability against the grade guarantee. They are conspiring against PSA by selling their cards. I'm not saying it's bad to sell a PSA 8 Mantle right now; I'm saying it's bad to consign it through PWCC.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

The consignor might be aware of the current situation and not care. It could be a planned sale. It could be sold for a number of reasons.

This scandal is going to blow over just like every storm in the hobby has up to this point.

I am surprised so many people think this is going to be the demise of high grade trading cards.

The 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle is the ultimate symbol of Americana and the price might be higher or it might be lower but you are never going to see the demand for this card evaporate.

There are some who have been calling for PWCC to cancel all of their auctions and others who hope Brent ends up in jail. This might be the ultimate FU saying we still get the goods.

One revelation from this recent situation we have confirmed is that you can use a hidden reserve on PWCC auctions so the odds of this going cheap are quite low I believe.

David- I don't expect the hobby to collapse over this scandal, but I would likewise be shocked if this entire matter was swept under the carpet and ignored.

PSA needs to acknowledge that they have to produce a better product, and as many collectors as possible should know about this. Then they can decide how they want to proceed. If they want to continue paying world's records for everything, at least they will be doing it with their eyes open.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

The consignor might be aware of the current situation and not care. It could be a planned sale. It could be sold for a number of reasons.

This scandal is going to blow over just like every storm in the hobby has up to this point.

I am surprised so many people think this is going to be the demise of high grade trading cards.

The 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle is the ultimate symbol of Americana and the price might be higher or it might be lower but you are never going to see the demand for this card evaporate.

There are some who have been calling for PWCC to cancel all of their auctions and others who hope Brent ends up in jail. This might be the ultimate FU saying we still get the goods.

One revelation from this recent situation we have confirmed is that you can use a hidden reserve on PWCC auctions so the odds of this going cheap are quite low I believe.

This card will bring a ton of money, just watch....

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by swarmee

#becausewetried

Nice card; consignor must be tone deaf or unaware of the current scandal.

thus far not that big of deal....ask 50 random people at the National. how many will think they are 'victims', how many will even know about this scandal...survey says....

Heck how are they supposed to know about the double secret probation

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Unimprovable condition!

OK, that was funny.

[CurtisFlood]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Unimprovable condition!

I see what you did there!

[Republicaninmass]

And please dont compare Apples to Eron David, I give you more credit than that.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

And please dont compare Apples to Eron David, I give you more credit than that.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

The obvious point is there have been loads of issues with autographs and people still collect them. I believe the same will prove to be true with cards.

A comment was made in a thread I read last night about the range of alterations and what is okay and what isn't okay. I for one as I have said was surprised when I learned that soaking and spooning were all deemed acceptable so it is clear there is a wide range of opinions on what constitutes alteration.

The card that was presented that Sotheby's expert had "restored" gives further credence to the art and antique car analogies. I wonder how many of the collectors that purchase these relics actually care. It might be a lot it might not be as many as people think.

I continue to believe though it is naive to think that if Picasso's can be restored and collector cars can too to mimic their original state that trading cards somehow can't and wont be.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

I continue to believe though it is naive to think that if Picasso's can be restored and collector cars can too to mimic their original state that trading cards somehow can't and wont be.

I used to wonder the same often. The standard retort was that Picasso's and many other works of art are one of a kind; sports cards - even really rare and expensive ones - generally aren't.

Where it matters in reality I believe is whether or not Joe Blow Zillionaire collector of macho-ridiculously-expensive sports cards thinks it matters. And to date I doubt many of those types have even considered the comparison question.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

I used to wonder the same often. The standard retort was that Picasso's and many other works of art are one of a kind; sports cards - even really rare and expensive ones - generally aren't.

Where it matters in reality I believe is whether or not Joe Blow Zillionaire collector of macho-ridiculously-expensive sports cards thinks it matters. And to date I doubt many of those types have even considered the comparison question.

I have a client that owns close to 20 1950's classic cars and he built a home with a museum attached that appears to be part of the home. When you tour this museum/garage and see how beautiful and near perfect the cars are it reinforces anything is possible.

He has a rare car from the 50's where there are only three known and his has the rare hubcaps that were limited edition. One or two are re-manufactured and the others are refurbished. The car is mint and is a perfect restoration.

In the car world there is an expectation that the cars have been worked on. In the vintage card world it seems there is the same but to what degree.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

I have a client that owns close to 20 1950's classic cars and he built a home with a museum attached that appears to be part of the home. When you tour this museum/garage and see how beautiful and near perfect the cars are it reinforces anything is possible.

He has a rare car from the 50's where there are only three known and his has the rare hubcaps that were limited edition. One or two are re-manufactured and the others are refurbished. The car is mint and is a perfect restoration.

In the car world there is an expectation that the cars have been worked on. In the vintage card world it seems there is the same but to what degree.

Is it the same base, unspoken expectation that it's simply not reasonable for classic vintage cars to be totally in untouched, factory NOS condition today - but that for cards somehow that might be possible? You can shove a Honus Wagner card in a book for a century, same is not possible with a car? To me it's still something unspoken like this to where we still just unthinkingly want to downgrade a card for any type of alteration. Brent obviously had horrible timing in trying to start a "conservation" discussion a few months back due to what he was up to, but even if not for that - it's not a dicussion that many collectors even want to approach.

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

A comment was made in a thread I read last night about the range of alterations and what is okay and what isn't okay. I for one as I have said was surprised when I learned that soaking and spooning were all deemed acceptable so it is clear there is a wide range of opinions on what constitutes alteration.

Huh? Spooning deemed acceptable? Where did you read that? I don't think anyone on this forum deems spooning of cards an acceptable practice.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

Huh? Spooning deemed acceptable? Where did you read that? I don't think anyone on this forum deems spooning of cards an acceptable practice.

It's ok with a significant other though.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's ok with a significant other though.

But I like forking a whole lot better

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[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

Huh? Spooning deemed acceptable? Where did you read that? I don't think anyone on this forum deems spooning of cards an acceptable practice.

I read just yesterday someone say they have read plenty of times that spooning out a wrinkle is okay.

Using chemicals on cards as long as they don't smell after has been stated as okay.

I would have never dreamed that the same crowd that is upset would be okay with that.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

I read just yesterday someone say they have read plenty of times that spooning out a wrinkle is okay.

Using chemicals on cards as long as they don't smell after has been stated as okay.

I would have never dreamed that the same crowd that is upset would be okay with that.

The majority of people saying it is OK are the ones doing it.

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

I read just yesterday someone say they have read plenty of times that spooning out a wrinkle is okay.

Using chemicals on cards as long as they don't smell after has been stated as okay.

I would have never dreamed that the same crowd that is upset would be okay with that.

Yes, I know which comment you are referring to and I think he was just talking out of his a** when he made that statement about everyone being OK with spooning cards.

"Hi, I'm Bob, and I think it's totally OK with spooning cards! I just spooned my 51' Bowman Mantle last night! Wanna' see it? Hehe!"

Have you ever read anything like that on here, David? I haven't and I've been on here for quite a while.

And I also don't believe that people on this forum would be OK with soaking cards in chemicals. Some of these chemicals can turn your card brittle and then you know what happens next, right?

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by jackwesq

Hi everyone. My apologies as this is post WWII card, but PWCC has the below 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle PSA 8 in their next auction.

Do you have a source for this?

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Do you have a source for this?

It is on their website. Starts July 5th I see.

[Just.Rachel]

It's not shilling. It's "conserving".

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[bmcnutt]

I've got 5 on it that it's been trimmed.....

[Dpeck100]

I was just deleting things off my watch list and the buyer shows a feedback of 1 and no bids in the past 30 days. Very high likelihood this was paid for.


https://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI....p2471758.m4792

Bidder Information
Bidder: 4***w ( 1 )
Feedback: 100% Positive
Item description: 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle #311 PSA 8 NM-MT (PWCC-A) - Certified Top 30%
Bids on this item: 11

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 0
Items bid on: 0
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 0% Help
Bid retractions: 0
Bid retractions (6 months): 0