e94 color survey

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Posted By: Scott Elkins

You didn't scan 116 E94's, have the number one set on the PSA registry, find the Tango Eggs cards and scan the entire Tango set plus a T206 Drum Cobb. Maybe next time..........sorry!

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Posted By: Richard

Quan - can I be that other collector for the purple?

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Posted By: Mark

My lone example:

Lord (Green)



- Mark
mrios@hotmail.com

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Posted By: andy becker

hi leon,
i have wondered if the gray is one of kevin's creations.
i don't think so, but i sure would like kevin's opinion.

anyway, here's the scan. please let me know what y'all think.

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Posted By: leon

I was kidding about it being Kevins...but maybe he will give us his thoughts...it's a neat card...

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Posted By: Brian Goldner

Hi Alan,

Here are mine:

Gold- 3
Violet- 2
Red- 2
Blue- 1
Olive- 1


Brian

**Edited to add my first olive background.
Thank you to Brian McQ

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Posted By: Matthew

Harry Davis - green

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Posted By: andy becker

leon (hi leon), no worries.....but you do pose an interesting question.
i have always thought my card to be a legit variation. i have not owned it for all that long....but..... i bought it before i knew of kevin and some of his abilities.
i would like to hear his opinion of the "freak".

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Posted By: Bob

Andy- First off, great card. That said I don't consider it to be a variation but rather a color printing "miscue" or "freak" or whatever you want to call it. I think the card is a one of a kind because of the lack of color added to it, much like the T206s which are yellow and brown, but I don't think there is any way that it is a variation. On the other hand, the recently unearthed orange E94s do appear to be legitimate and rare variations. I remember when I first bought my pumpkin orange Devore in a PSA 6 holder, the card was roundly looked at skeptically because no one had ever seen one before. It had been previously owned by Brian Daniels who had several (I remember a Cobb, a Jennings, a Speaker and some commons). There was some worry that the card had been doctored in some way which had caused the red background color to become orange since the orange color was unknown at the time. I remember even a caramel card guru like Pete Calderon questioned the card. Pete finally relented when another one popped up in an SGC holder. Then the credibility mother-lode struck when Lionel Carter turned up with two (now in the hands of Alan Moret) and Lionel acquired them over 50 years ago.
Long winded explanation to say I believe Andy's card is a great card, one that is very desirable, one I envy, but not a variation.
tbob

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Posted By: Wesley

Bob,

What makes the grey a print miscue, while the orange a legitimate variation?

Could it be that the orange cards are incomplete reds, while the grey card is an incomplete blue?

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Posted By: robert a

Wes,

Although possible, I don't think so. When I first heard rumor of the orange background e94s I figured they were reds missing a color, but after seeing more than one, look to me like a legitimate color variation. All of them looked like the same shade of orange, unlike say the orange background t206 cobbs that are all over the spectrum.

Rob

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Posted By: Richard

Rob and Bob,

Assuming that E94s were printed in "complete set" sheets, would it make sense that a lack of color, or color freak, would affect a whole sheet rather than a single card? Assuming that no more than a single copy of an orange E94 has ever been found, perhaps all of the similar looking oranges came from the single print freak sheet?

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Posted By: Wesley

BCD above said he owns 19 different orange E94s. Maybe Brian can tell us whether there is duplication for the 19 orange E94s that he owns.

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Posted By: robert a

Richard,

Good question. I think it's a possibility that one sheet of orange e94s were out there as a result of a printing error. Especially since all of the orange examples I've seen have been found in nice condition.

With that theory in mind it would mean there are several other grey examples out there like Andys as well.

Rob

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Posted By: leon

I have 232 orange E94's....just don't ask to see them....

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Posted By: Wesley

232 orange E94s?

If you can by midnight tonight post a photo of yourself, the 232 oranges, and today's newspaper, I will send you all twelve of my 1985 Mark McGwire rookies. Let's see them.

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Posted By: Richard

Robert - good question about the grey.

Of course, it is all speculation, but if I were the printer, I would look at the orange sheet and say, "Wow, I screwed up that red, but it looks pretty decent as an orange and I think they are good enough to keep."

Then when I printed the grey sheet I would say, "Wow, I screwed up that one, and it looks like crap. These need to be scrapped."

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Posted By: barrysloate

In 1949, the Bowman company printed numerous cards with grey backgrounds, known among collectors as slatebacks. They simply missed one or more color pass. I would guess the same is true of the E94.

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Posted By: Bob

One other thing to factor in on the orange E94s is they are popping up in different parts of the country. I know this doesn't necessarily rule out the possibility there was one sheet printed with a color missing which made them orange or that a printer goofed, thinking he was printing orange background E98s or something, but the fact Lionel Carter gets two in the midwest in the 50's and Brian Daniels comes up with some on the west coast in the 90's makes you pause.

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Posted By: Bob

With regard to the oranges, Alan owns the Lionel Carter E94 orange Crawford and I, for some reason, thought Brian had an orange Crawford also in his original group but I may be mistaken? Brian? If not, then I believe there are not more than one known orange color variations of each player.

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Posted By: JimB

Bob,
With regards to Lionel Carter's acquisition of two orange E94s, I would guess that he did a lot of trading and acquiring through the mail, so the origin of those cards could really be from anywhere in the country. Did BCD find a group or simply accumulate quietly. I would love to see a scan of his 19 orange E94s.
JimB

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Posted By: quan

I don't ever remember bcd having 19 oranges??? he had a few in the hi grade set he bought raw from doug allen in the 90's and got sgc to grade them, then later into psa holders where some were downgraded due to tougher grading(?) and/or oc issues. They were nice though, the orange cobb was an 84 I remember that sold in mastro for like 17k. Until I see dupes of the oranges known then they're not a true background variation to me. I wouldn't even pay more for them as I've always disliked the e93/e98 oranges.

BCD can probably chime in more as he was the king of e94s at one time with the 116 e94s (title now currently belongs to tbob with his 483 ).

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Posted By: Bob

483? I wish
Rob is right though, all the oranges are exactly the same color, not light orange for some, dark orange for some, etc. I agree with Quan, I'd like to see one player pictured on two different orange cards. So far I haven't ever seen one. I'm still waiting on BcD to tell me if he once owned an orange Crawford. All of Brian's oranges were in PSA 6 (SGC 80) and above. The ones in Mastro were a 30 and a 20.