Hobby Hustle Documentary 2-16-25

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by homerunhitter

No, not at all. Just never looked one up. Don’t know the process but thank you for schooling me!

It's just a matter of opening the PSA cert lookup page, typing in the number, and hitting go. Very easy.

[Lucas00]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

Provided the piece was never sold as genuine, no crime would have actually been committed.

Simple search on Google said this.

Yes, forging autographs on sports memorabilia, even if you don't intend to sell them, is generally considered illegal as it constitutes a form of fraud, as you are still creating a false representation of someone else's signature, which can be punishable by law depending on your jurisdiction; meaning simply creating a fake autograph, regardless of the intent to sell, can still be considered a crime.

Half of n54 seem to be lawyers. Maybe they know more.

But I'd imagine if you filled a warehouse up with forged autographs but never sold any that you'd still be in some big trouble.

[homerunhitter]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's just a matter of opening the PSA cert lookup page, typing in the number, and hitting go. Very easy.

I didn’t know not was that simple to do. That doesn’t seem too bad. Thanks for teaching me. I appreciate it.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by Lucas00

Simple search on Google said this.

Yes, forging autographs on sports memorabilia, even if you don't intend to sell them, is generally considered illegal as it constitutes a form of fraud, as you are still creating a false representation of someone else's signature, which can be punishable by law depending on your jurisdiction; meaning simply creating a fake autograph, regardless of the intent to sell, can still be considered a crime.

Half of n54 seem to be lawyers. Maybe they know more.

But I'd imagine if you filled a warehouse up with forged autographs but never sold any that you'd still be in some big trouble.

If that is indeed the case, then my sincere apologies. I was employing logic over consulting the law, so mea culpa.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by homerunhitter

I didn’t know not was that simple to do. That doesn’t seem too bad. Thanks for teaching me. I appreciate it.

If you download the PSA app (assuming you have a smartphone), then you don't even have to type in the cert #. Just open the app and click the button to scan the barcode. Might take about 3 seconds total.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

On the 13th of Never.

Agreed. Though the ultimate power move would be to crack it and resubmit it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by conor912

Agreed. Though the ultimate power move would be to crack it and resubmit it.

It would go at random to some kid who would give it a 4.

[homerunhitter]

Originally Posted by raulus

If you download the PSA app (assuming you have a smartphone), then you don't even have to type in the cert #. Just open the app and click the button to scan the barcode. Might take about 3 seconds total.

I will check that out. Seems simpler than I thought. Thank you do much for your help. I appreciate it.

[homerunhitter]

Also,

For those here that have knowledge and experience with PSA slabbed signed Perez steeles, is there are concerns or much that I should worry about or be concerned about with collecting Perez steeled slabbed by PSA. Are they a high forgery target item? Are there a lot of fake Perez steered out there? Anything I need to look for or will I generally be safe collecting PSA slabbed signed Perez steeles (I don’t want to get burned with forgeries if you guys think PSA Perez steeles are a problem please give me the straight scoop on these! Save me a big headache down the road please! Thanks so much.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Watched it last night. OMG is it boring. 2:30 of documentary that tells about four disjointed stories with some rando talking heads:

--Some kid from Michigan doing breaks and opening a store
--Some forger from Ohio
--Something about some Packer having fun with it
--The Black Swamp Find

All the stories were drawn way out. They spent more time on the forger's life backstory (which no one could possibly give a crap about) than Babe Ruth got from Ken Burns. The BS find was interesting but unbelievably repetitive. They were at the National but they barely used anything from the premier event of the hobby. Made the whole hobby look like a dull, slow money grab.

Not worth the $2.99.

Now, as for Jeff and his practice: we have this discussion every year or two when someone decides to trash talk him for defending big-time criminals, alleged and convicted. Stop it. What he does is as vital to the maintenance of the rule of law as anything a prosecutor or judge does. If you get caught up in the meat grinder of the criminal justice system and the entire force of the state is against you, guys like Jeff are critical to keeping the government honest. If I had my tit in a wringer in NY I'd retain him in a heartbeat (assuming I could afford him)

When it becomes free I might watch it. The one I am waiting for that I would actually pay money for has some of the same people involved. I would love to hear the story on Jeff, PWCC, and the FBI agent. That is the craziest sh*t ever.

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It would go at random to some kid who would give it a 4.

But first the submitter would probably be charged an arm and a leg for the privilege

[CollectingKid84]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Watched it last night. OMG is it boring. 2:30 of documentary that tells about four disjointed stories with some rando talking heads:

--Some kid from Michigan doing breaks and opening a store
--Some forger from Ohio
--Something about some Packer having fun with it
--The Black Swamp Find

All the stories were drawn way out. They spent more time on the forger's life backstory (which no one could possibly give a crap about) than Babe Ruth got from Ken Burns. The BS find was interesting but unbelievably repetitive. They were at the National but they barely used anything from the premier event of the hobby. Made the whole hobby look like a dull, slow money grab.

Not worth the $2.99.

Now, as for Jeff and his practice: we have this discussion every year or two when someone decides to trash talk him for defending big-time criminals, alleged and convicted. Stop it. What he does is as vital to the maintenance of the rule of law as anything a prosecutor or judge does. If you get caught up in the meat grinder of the criminal justice system and the entire force of the state is against you, guys like Jeff are critical to keeping the government honest. If I had my tit in a wringer in NY I'd retain him in a heartbeat (assuming I could afford him)

I enjoyed the film very much. I'm a younger collector, so maybe this board is full of older collectors who are very sensitive about the hobby. But the film, I thought was pretty dope. I do think it's hard to put EVERYTHING about the hobby into one film. The film should've probably been a series but for what the director was focusing on I thought it was fine.

[bk400]

Originally Posted by CollectingKid84

I enjoyed the film very much. I'm a younger collector, so maybe this board is full of older collectors who are very sensitive about the hobby. But the film, I thought was pretty dope. I do think it's hard to put EVERYTHING about the hobby into one film. The film should've probably been a series but for what the director was focusing on I thought it was fine.

Hey Kid, don't flatter yourself. I've been told by the truly younger set that if you know how to even use a message forum like this, you've got one foot in the grave.

In all seriousness, I enjoyed parts of the documentary myself! I also like the 84 in your handle. That's Dwight Gooden's rookie year. Dwight Gooden was the best before the blow got him.

[maniac_73]

Jeffs a good dude and great member on this board. Always enjoy speaking with him.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by maniac_73

Jeffs a good dude and great member on this board. Always enjoy speaking with him.

User name checks out

[homerunhitter]

Originally Posted by bk400

After my return to the hobby a few years ago, I've come to realize that some suspension of disbelief is required to enjoy myself. I know in the back of my mind that there is a chance that the authenticated autograph that I buy is fake. I just purchased a bunch of non-authenticated autographed 1986 Topps Mets cards. I'd like to think that no one is going to bother forging Kevin Mitchell's autograph for a $5 profit, but who knows. I still enjoy the cards for what (I think) they are.

Same with the graded cards. I collect Ozzie Smith, and not to cast aspersions on anyone who might own one, but none of the PSA 10 examples of the 1979 Topps rookie card are as good to the naked eye test as the more recently graded 9s -- but the 10s still sell for 10-50x the price of the 9s, if and when they come up for sale. But yet most of the hobby still values (literally) the opinion of third party graders and, presumably, still enjoys collecting graded cards.

I don't love the potential for fakes and some of the fallacies inherent to third party grading, but I think it's just he mental price of being in the hobby, unfortunately.

Very good points. I also feel that being worried all of the time would make collecting not fun. I guess another way to look at it is, as long as it’s been “blessed” authentic by PSA, it will sell (someone in the future will always but it if it’s in a slab already authenticated by PSA.)

[bk400]

Originally Posted by homerunhitter

Very good points. I also feel that being worried all of the time would make collecting not fun. I guess another way to look at it is, as long as it’s been “blessed” authentic by PSA, it will sell (someone in the future will always but it if it’s in a slab already authenticated by PSA.)

I think that's right. You've heard from collectors who are highly skeptical of PSA-graded autographs. They won't be your buyers, obviously. But for what it is worth, when I look at the PSA-graded autographs on the playing-day cards of postwar HOFers (guys like Hank Aaron) and track auctions on eBay, they seem to attract a fair amount of interest and move at market prices.

[homerunhitter]

Originally Posted by bk400

I think that's right. You've heard from collectors who are highly skeptical of PSA-graded autographs. They won't be your buyers, obviously. But for what it is worth, when I look at the PSA-graded autographs on the playing-day cards of postwar HOFers (guys like Hank Aaron) and track auctions on eBay, they seem to attract a fair amount of interest and move at market prices.

So true! I just read in Facebook in a collectors group taking about autographs, someone posted “ Needs to be authenticated... too many forgered signature out there...i heard 90% are fake.” 90% yikes, when you think about it. Does anyone think that we are seeing the tip of the iceberg currently when it comes to fake autographs being slabbed by TPAs?

[homerunhitter]

Anyone out there have ANY thoughts on this? Come on Guys!

[bk400]

Originally Posted by homerunhitter

Anyone out there have ANY thoughts on this? Come on Guys!

I'm sure that there a large number of autographs that slip past the goalie with the TPGs. But as a percentage of submissions? I'd venture that it is pretty low. As I said earlier, if the market believed that there was an unacceptably high rate of bad authentications, the price of graded, aftermarket autos would reflect that. But I don't think it does.