Best Starting 9 in a single set?

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yes, and he was a better right fielder than Aaron too by some margin, but overall, it's not even close. E.g. 143 vs. 94 WAR. And yes, I know Clemente had a couple of end of career seasons left in him where he would have added a little.

Clemente played in the most difficult stadium to hit home runs in for most of his career. Aaron played in the easiest stadium to hit home runs for half his career and still needed the Braves to move the fences in to help him. I would put Aaron at 1b on teams after Stan Musial retired, but I would never put him in RF.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by rats60

Clemente played in the most difficult stadium to hit home runs in for most of his career. Aaron played in the easiest stadium to hit home runs for half his career and still needed the Braves to move the fences in to help him. I would put Aaron at 1b on teams after Stan Musial retired, but I would never put him in RF.

Does that really explain 750 HR vs. 240? Come on now. Or 2300 RBI vs. 1300? Aaron was a much greater slugger, there can be no serious dispute.

BTW Aaron hit something like 370 HR on the road -- 50 percent more than Clemente's total output.

[John1941]

Originally Posted by terjung

It would be fun to see the results if there were some sort of simulation that could be run with these teams.

Maybe we could do a Stratomatic tournament, or Out Of The Park, or something like that.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by John1941

Maybe we could do a Stratomatic tournament, or Out Of The Park, or something like that.

OOTP could definitely handle this.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by terjung

It would be fun to see the results if there were some sort of simulation that could be run with these teams.

Those farmers of yesteryear wouldn't stand a chance.

[JollyElm]

I made a Strat-O-Matic card that can be used for any steroids era player, pitchers included...

stratomaticsteroids.jpg

[yanksfan09]

a bit late on this thread but thought M101-6 Felix Mendelsohn was worth mentioning. Not a very large set either at a bit over 100 cards but chock full of all time greats. If we aren't sticklers for exact listed positions can field:

C. R. Schalk
1b. G. Sisler
2b. Eddie Collins/ Hornsby
3b. Home Run Baker
SS. Honus Wagner (checklisted but unconfirmed) or Hornsby (SS listed on card)
OF. Babe Ruth/ (or Tris Speaker if Ruth pitches)
OF Ty Cobb
OF Joe Jackson
P. Walter Johnson/ Grover Alexander/Babe Ruth
MGR. John McGraw

[Peter_Spaeth]

We didn't do 1956 yet. If you allow a cheat and put Mantle at 1B, it's arguably as good as any.

1B Hodges (or, cheating a little, Mantle)
2B Jackie (yes, card says 3B but whatever)
SS Banks
3B Mathews
OF Williams, Mays, Aaron
C Berra
P Koufax, Feller, Ford, Spahn, Roberts
RP Wilhelm
DH Mantle if not at iB otherwise Clemente

[skelly423]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

We didn't do 1956 yet. If you allow a cheat and put Mantle at 1B, it's arguably as good as any.

1B Hodges (or, cheating a little, Mantle)
2B Jackie (yes, card says 3B but whatever)
SS Banks
3B Mathews
OF Williams, Mays, Aaron
C Berra
P Koufax, Feller, Ford, Spahn, Roberts
RP Wilhelm
DH Mantle if not at iB otherwise Clemente

I had the 1956 set in mind when I posted this topic. I'm surprised it took this long for someone to pick it. I might quibble over Killebrew at 1B or Campanella at C, but your list looks a lot like mine. I would say Williams was born to be a DH, and I'd put Mantle/Clemente in the field.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Forgot Killebrew started out at 1B. Over Hodges for sure.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Was just coming to post 1956 topps

[bigfanNY]

How about 1940 playball?
C Dickey
1b Foxx
2b Gehringer
Ss Wagner
3b Frank Baker
OF Williams
Of Dimaggio
OF Joe Jackson
P Walter Johnson , Christy Mathewson
Mgr Connie Mack

[rats60]

Originally Posted by bigfanNY

How about 1940 playball?
C Dickey
1b Foxx
2b Gehringer
Ss Wagner
3b Frank Baker
OF Williams
Of Dimaggio
OF Joe Jackson
P Walter Johnson , Christy Mathewson
Mgr Connie Mack

Half of those guys are retired. Why not just do 1976 Topps?

P Walter Johnson
C Johnny Bench
1B Lou Gehrig
2B Rogers Hornsby
3B Mike Schmidt
SS Honus Wagner
OF Babe Ruth
OF Ty Cobb
OF Ted Williams

[Peter_Spaeth]

1968 Topps would be strong.

C Bench
1B Mantle
2B Morgan
SS Banks (cheat) or Aparicio
3b Mathews
OF Mays, Aaron, Clemente, F Robinson
P Seaver, Carlton, Ryan, Gibson, Marichal
RP Wilhelm

[Touch'EmAll]

I might go '33 Goudey like this:

C - Cochrane
1B - Gehrig
2B - Lajoie
3B - Foxx
SS - Hornsby
OF - Ruth
OF - Ott
CF - Speaker
P - Grove

[Foto1]

As I read these teams I come to a question that has always perplexed me. I love Yogi, and love Campanella, how come Yogi is always chosen over Roy? Never saw either play, started watching in 68, but for those who saw both, is it not close or are they a toss up? Played a lot of All Time All Star, the SI game in early 70's, on the chart in the game Campy was stronger. Same question Eddie Mathews and Hank Aaron, as they played together was Aaron the player and Mathews the second choice. Did see Aaron quite a bit, did not see Eddie Mathews. Question for those who saw them.

[skelly423]

Originally Posted by Foto1

As I read these teams I come to a question that has always perplexed me. I love Yogi, and love Campanella, how come Yogi is always chosen over Roy? Never saw either play, started watching in 68, but for those who saw both, is it not close or are they a toss up? Played a lot of All Time All Star, the SI game in early 70's, on the chart in the game Campy was stronger. Same question Eddie Mathews and Hank Aaron, as they played together was Aaron the player and Mathews the second choice. Did see Aaron quite a bit, did not see Eddie Mathews. Question for those who saw them.

I never saw them play either, but my best guess is that it comes down to two factors. Between his negro league career and his accident, Campanella had a shorter career in the majors, so his major counting stats don't measure up to Yogi's. When you factor in 10 championships vs 1, Yogi has a clear advantage. Add in the colorful personality and the Yankee mystique, I think that explains why he's the choice for so many people. Personally I think Campanella was better, but I understand why people would lean toward Yogi.

With respect to Aaron vs. Mathews, I think it's as simple as Aaron being far superior in every meaningful statistic. This isn't meant to diminish Mathews, who is an underappreciated great of the game, but he's just a star, Henry Aaron is no worse that the 5th best player in the history of the game, and has a legitimate argument to be the best.

[brianp-beme]

Another in a series of making due with what you are given...I present to you the all-time lineup from the 10 card W9316 set:

P - Jesse Barnes (promoted from relief pitcher in W514 to starter here)

C - Ray Schalk

1B - George Sisler

2B - Jimmy Johnston

3B - Frank Baker

SS - Wally Schang (primarily a catcher, in 1918 played in 1 game as SS)

LF - Bobby Veach

CF - Tommy Griffith

RF/MGR - Wilbert Robinson (8 games in OF, so he sticks himself in right)

Relief Pitcher - Leon Cadore (45 games as non-starter)


Brian