FYI....T206 PIEDMONT factory 25 & factory 42 confirmed lists

[tedzan]

Dated Oct 7, 2020

PIEDMONT Factory #25



PIEDMONT was the American Tobacco Co. Flagship brand. Approx. 53% of all T206's are PIEDMONT cards.
A complete PIEDMONT set includes 522 different subjects, which were printed and issued in six Series. The
150-only Series was issued Summer 1909. Followed by the 150/350, Southern Leaguer, 350-only, 350/460
and finally the 460-only Series in early 1911.
As many of you know, I have put together an All - PIEDMONT set consisting of 520 cards (no Wagner, Plank). And,
it's not a really difficult project to accomplish.
I do not see a purpose for posting a checklist of all 522 cards of this sub-set, as they are known to most collectors.
However, I will post certain subtle aspects regarding the tougher Factory #25 cards....such as the Elite 11.

Series breakdown....... 520 different subjects and two error cards

150-only Series............ 12 subjects
150/350 Series.......... 143 (150 Series) subjects
350-only Series...........208 subjects
350/460 Series............ 63 subjects
460-only Series............ 46 subjects
Southern Leaguers...... 48 subjects
and,
Sherry Magie error (Piedmont 150)
Joe Doyle NY Nat'L (Piedmont 350)




The Elite 11 cards...…PIEDMONT 350

This strange curiosity was first explored on this forum back in 2007 when I discovered the Lundgren (Cubs)
card with a PIEDMONT 350 back. This Lundgren card prompted me to post a thread in which we ran several
surveys on certain 150/350 Series cards. Check-it-out...… Elite 11

Anyhow, illustrated here are these 11 subjects. And, if you are try for a PIEDMONT master set, you will find
the PIEDMONT 350 versions of these 11 guys very, very difficult to find......especially, the Spencer card.






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PIEDMONT 460 Factory #42



PIEDMONT 460 Factory #42 confirmed list............

350/460 Series......63 subjects (complete)

Ames (hands over head)
Baker
Bender (no trees)
Berger
Bradley (bat)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Burch (fielding)
Chance (yellow portrait)
Chase (blue portrait)
Chase (dark cap)
Cobb (red portrait)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Conroy (bat)
Davis (A's)
Crawford (bat)
Donlin (bat)
Doolan (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)
Downey (bat)
Larry Doyle (bat)

Elberfeld (Washington-fielding)
Evers (bat-yellow sky)
Griffith (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (both hands)
Johnson (pitching)
Jordan (bat)
Joss (pitching)
Kleinow (Boston)
Konetchy (glove low)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (no ball)
Leach (cap)
Leifield (bat)
Magee (bat)
Manning (pitching)
Mathewson (dark cap)
McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago)
McQuillan (bat)
Mullin (bat)

Murphy (bat)
O'Leary (hands on knees)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)
Reulbach (no glove)
Rucker (throwing)
Seymour (throwing)
F. Smith (Chicago & Boston)
Snodgrass (catching)
Stahl (glove)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Street (catching)
Sweeney (fielding)
Tinker (bat off shoulder)
Wagner (bat on right)
White (pitching)
Wilhelm (bat)
Willetts
Willis (bat)

Willis (throwing)
Wiltse (throwing)
CYoung (glove)



460-only Series......9 subjects confirmed (appears to be complete).

Chase (Trophy)
Latham
Marquard (follow thru)
Merkle (throwing)
Schlei (portrait)
Schlei (batting)
Schaefer (Washington)
Seymour (portrait)
Wiltse (portrait-cap)


TED Z
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[judsonhamlin]

Both of the Fact. 42 lists support the 12 card sheet, it seems. Running with that, I would be surprised if new examples show up.
Thanks as always, Ted.

[WillBBC]

These threads are excellent. Looking forward to the other back information.

[tedzan]

If you like these numbers on the Piedmont cards, did you check-out the American Beauty 350 frame
and no frame numbers ?

192 and 36, respectively.........and, wait till I post some of the other T-brands.

Best regards, friend.

TED Z

[tedzan]

Hey guys......

Still looking for a PIEDMONT 460, Factory 42 card of Tinker (bat off) to complete the 350/460 series run of this tough back.

Thanks for looking,

TED Z

[PolarBear]

It's my opinion that the Plank and Wagner were never released in Piedmont packs as they were in Sweet Caporal packs, and should be regarded as proofs.

Anyone have any thoughts on those two and/or any others?

[tedzan]

This is the 2nd of 15 threads that will provide the most up to date lists of the confirmed cards with the various T206
backs.






PIEDMONT 150....350....460, Factory #25

PIEDMONT tobacco was ATC's "flagship" brand in the early 1900's. All 522 subjects (of 524 cards)* in the T206 set
are found with the PIEDMONT brand.

This is unique with the PIEDMONT brand......since, all of the other 14 brands in the T206 set comprise of less cards.
The start of the 150 Series in 1909, then subsequently the 350 Series, American Lithographic printed the PIEDMONT
cards first (followed by the other T-brands).

* Note, the St Louis variations of Demmitt & O'Hara exist only with POLAR BEAR backs.


There is no need to list all 522 cards. Provided here is a break down of the 5 series of a PIEDMONT set......

Cards............SERIES...................Includes ...............................

156 ..............150..............Lundgren, Magie, Plank, Wagner
209 ..............350-only.......Dahlen, Elberfeld, and Joe Doyle error
..48 ..............350.............Southern Leaguers
..57 ..............350/460
..46 ..............460-only

...6 .................................six super-prints
-----
522 ....total


With respect to the PIEDMONT brand, the following 14 subjects in the 150 Series are found with the PIEDMONT 150
back; and therefore, are referred to as 150-Only cards.
Since these 14 subjects were not printed with PIEDMONT 350 backs.

Ames (hands at chest)
M. Brown (Cubs)
G. Brown(e) (Chicago)
Burch (batting)
Donlin (fielding)
Larry Doyle (throwing)
Evers (Cubs-batting)
Magie
Pattee
Pelty (horizontal)
Plank
Powers
Reulbach (glove)
Honus Wagner


Thus, there are 142 subjects from the 150 Series that are found with PIEDMONT 150 and PIEDMONT 350 backs.
They are........

Abbaticchio (brown sleeves)
Alperman
Ames (portrait)
Ball (New York)
Bates
Beaumont
Bell (hands above head)
Bender (portrait)
Bergen (batting)
Birmingham
Bowerman
Bradley (portrait)
Bransfield
Bresnahan (portrait)
Bridwell (portrait - no cap)
M. Brown (Portrait)
Camnitz (arms folded)
Chance (portrait - red)
Chase (portrait - pink)
Chase (white cap)

Chesbro
Cicotte
F. Clarke (portrait)
F. Clarke (holding bat)
J.J. Clarke (Cleveland)
Cobb (portrait - green)
Cobb (bat on shoulder)
Conroy (fielding)
Covaleski
Crandall (portrait - no cap)
Crawford (throwing)
Criger
Criss
Dahlen (Boston)
George Davis (Chicago)
H. Davis (A's)
Delehanty (Washington)
Devlin
Donlin (seated)
Donohue

Donovan (portrait)
Dooin
Doolin
Dougherty (portrait)
Durham
Elberfeld (portrait -New York)
Evers (portrait)
Ewing
Ferris
Flick
Ganley
Gibson
Gilbert
Goode
Griffith (portrait)
Hahn
Hemphill
Herzog (New York)
Hinchman (Cleveland)
Isbell

Jacklitsch
Jennings (portrait)
Johnson (portrait)
T. Jones (St. Louis)
F. Jones (portrait)
F. Jones (hands on hips)
T. Jordan (portrait)
Joss (portrait)
Karger
Keeler (portrait)
Keeler (batting)
Killian (pitching)
Kleinow (batting)
Kling
Konetchy (glove high)
Lajoie (portrait)
Lajoie (throwing)
Lake (New York)
Leach (portrait)
Leifield (pitching)

Liebhardt
Lindaman
Lobert
Lumley
Lundgren (Cubs)
Magee (portrait)
Manning (batting)
Marquard (hands at thighs)
Mathewson (portrait)
Mathewson (white cap)
McGraw (portrait - no cap)
McGraw (finger in air)
Harry McIntyre (Brooklyn)
McQuillan (ball in hand)
Merkle (portrait)
Mullin (throwing)
Murphy (throwing)
Nicholls
Niles
Oldring (fielding)

O’Leary (portrait)
Overall (portrait)
Owen
Parent
Pastorius
Powell
Ritchey
Rucker (portrait)
Schaefer (Detroit)
Schlei (catching)
Schmidt (throwing)
Schulte (front view)
Seymour (batting)
Shaw (St. Louis)
Sheckard (no glove)
Shipke
F. Smith (Chicago)
Spade
Spencer
Stahl (no glove)

Steinfeldt (portrait)
Stone
Stovall (portrait)
Sullivan
L. Tannehill
Tenney
Tinker (portrait)
Tinker (hands on knees)
Turner
Waddell (portrait)
Waddell (throwing)
Wagner (bat on left)
Wallace
Walsh
Weimer
Doc White (portrait)
Wilhelm (hands at chest)
Williams
Willis (Pittsburg)
Wiltse (portrait - no cap)

CYoung (portrait)
CYoung (bare hand)



TED Z

[tedzan]

The Bergen (catching) PIEDMONT factory 42 card has been confirmed.

The grand total is now 75 (out of 109) cards with PIEDMONT factory 42 backs that have been confirmed.

PIEDMONT 460 Factory #42 confirmed list............

350/460 Series......63 cards

Ames (hands over head)
Baker
Bender (no trees)
Berger
Bradley (bat)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Burch (fielding)
Chance (yellow portrait)
Chase (blue portrait)
Chase (dark cap)
Cobb (red portrait)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Conroy (bat)
Davis (A's)
Crawford (bat)
Donlin (bat)
Doolan (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)
Downey (bat)
Larry Doyle (bat)

Elberfeld (Washington-fielding)
Evers (bat-yellow sky)
Griffith (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (both hands)
Johnson (pitching)
Jordan (bat)
Joss (pitching)
Kleinow (Boston)
Konetchy (glove low)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (no ball)
Leach (cap)
Leifield (bat)
Magee (bat)
Manning (pitching)
Mathewson (dark cap)
McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago)
McQuillan (bat)
Mullin (bat)

Murphy (bat)
O'Leary (hands on knees)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)
Reulbach (no glove)
Rucker (throwing)
Seymour (throwing)
F. Smith (Chicago & Boston)
Snodgrass (catching)
Stahl (glove)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Street (catching)
Sweeney (fielding)
Tinker (bat off shoulder)
Wagner (bat on right)
White (pitching)
Wilhelm (bat)
Willetts
Willis (bat)

Willis (throwing)
Wiltse (throwing)
CYoung (glove)



460-only Series......12 cards

Bergen (catching)
Chase (Trophy)
Latham
Marquard (follow thru)
Merkle (throwing)
Murray (portrait)
Overall (blue sky)
Schlei (portrait)
Schlei (batting)
Schaefer (Washington)
Seymour (portrait)
Wiltse (portrait-cap)


This 460-only Series card has been reported but not 100% confirmed......

Chance (bat)


Any new PIEDMONT 460 Factory #42 inputs are greatly appreciated.


Thanks to all who have contributed to this T206 survey.

TED Z

[White Borders]

Hi Ted,

Got a new Piedmont Factory 42 confirmation - Schlei Batting. Picked it up last week.

Best Regards,
Craig

[CMIZ5290]

+1, good pick up

[tedzan]

Craig

Thanks for the new input. Schlei has been added to the list.


TED Z

[ethicsprof]

+1 to your previous comments, Leon and to your fine efforts, Ted

all the best,
Barry

[tedzan]

Thanks Leon and Barry.


This Chase is my favorite PIEDMONT 460/42 .... of the dozen (or so) of these PIEDMONT's which I have.


[IMG][/IMG] .



TED Z

[tedzan]

With the recent discovery of Tinker (bat off shoulder) the confirmed total now is 72 subjects with the PIEDMONT 460, factory #42 back.






PIEDMONT 460 Factory #42 confirmed list............

350/460 Series......63 subjects (complete)

Ames (hands over head)
Baker
Bender (no trees)
Berger
Bradley (bat)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Burch (fielding)
Chance (yellow portrait)
Chase (blue portrait)
Chase (dark cap)
Cobb (red portrait)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Conroy (bat)
Davis (A's)
Crawford (bat)
Donlin (bat)
Doolan (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)
Downey (bat)
Larry Doyle (bat)

Elberfeld (Washington-fielding)
Evers (bat-yellow sky)
Griffith (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (both hands)
Johnson (pitching)
Jordan (bat)
Joss (pitching)
Kleinow (Boston)
Konetchy (glove low)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (no ball)
Leach (cap)
Leifield (bat)
Magee (bat)
Manning (pitching)
Mathewson (dark cap)
McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago)
McQuillan (bat)
Mullin (bat)

Murphy (bat)
O'Leary (hands on knees)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)
Reulbach (no glove)
Rucker (throwing)
Seymour (throwing)
F. Smith (Chicago & Boston)
Snodgrass (catching)
Stahl (glove)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Street (catching)
Sweeney (fielding)
Tinker (bat off shoulder)
Wagner (bat on right)
White (pitching)
Wilhelm (bat)
Willetts
Willis (bat)

Willis (throwing)
Wiltse (throwing)
CYoung (glove)



460-only Series......9 subjects

Chase (Trophy)
Latham
Marquard (follow thru)
Merkle (throwing)
Schlei (portrait)
Schlei (batting)
Schaefer (Washington)
Seymour (portrait)
Wiltse (portrait-cap)


Other Net54 sources claim that the following 4 subjects are confirmed.

Chance (batting)
Bergen (catching)
Murray (portrait)
Overall (blue sky)

My research indicates that these 4 subjects are PIEDMONT 460, factory #42 No-Prints.



TED Z
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[tedzan]

156 subjects

Abbaticchio (brown sleeves)
Alperman
Ames (portrait)
Ames (hands at chest)
Ball (New York)
Bates
Beaumont
Bell (hands above head)
Bender (portrait)
Bergen (batting)
Birmingham
Bowerman
Bradley (portrait)
Bransfield
Bresnahan (portrait)
Bridwell (portrait - no cap)
M. Brown (Cubs)
M. Brown (Portrait)
G. Brown(e) (Chicago)
Burch (batting)

Camnitz (arms folded)
Chance (portrait - red)
Chase (portrait - pink)
Chase (white cap)
Chesbro
Cicotte
F. Clarke (portrait)
F. Clarke (holding bat)
J.J. Clarke (Cleveland)
Cobb (portrait - green)
Cobb (bat on shoulder)
Conroy (fielding)
Covaleski
Crandall (portrait - no cap)
Crawford (throwing)
Criger
Criss
Dahlen (Boston)
George Davis (Chicago)
H. Davis (A's)

Delehanty (Washington)
Devlin
Donlin (fielding)
Donlin (seated)
Donohue\
Donovan (portrait)
Dooin
Doolin
Dougherty (portrait)
Larry Doyle (throwing)
Durham
Elberfeld (portrait -New York)
Evers (Cubs-batting)
Evers (portrait)
Ewing
Ferris
Flick
Ganley
Gibson
Gilbert

Goode
Griffith (portrait)
Hahn
Hemphill
Herzog (New York)
Hinchman (Cleveland)
Isbell
Jacklitsch
Jennings (portrait)
Johnson (portrait)
T. Jones (St. Louis)
F. Jones (portrait)
F. Jones (hands on hips)
T. Jordan (portrait)
Joss (portrait)
Karger
Keeler (portrait)
Keeler (batting)
Killian (pitching)
Kleinow (batting)

Kling
Konetchy (glove high)
Lajoie (portrait)
Lajoie (throwing)
Lake (New York)
Leach (portrait)
Leifield (pitching)
Liebhardt
Lindaman
Lobert
Lumley
Lundgren (Cubs)
Magie (portrait)
Magee (portrait)
Manning (batting)
Marquard (hands at thighs)
Mathewson (portrait)
Mathewson (white cap)
McGraw (portrait - no cap)
McGraw (finger in air)


Harry McIntyre (Brooklyn)
McQuillan (ball in hand)
Merkle (portrait)
Mullin (throwing)
Murphy (throwing)
Nicholls
Niles
Oldring (fielding)
O’Leary (portrait)
Overall (portrait)
Owen
Parent
Pastorius
Pattee
Pelty (horizontal)
Plank
Powell
Powers
Reulbach (glove)
Ritchey

Rucker (portrait)
Schaefer (Detroit)
Schlei (catching)
Schmidt (throwing)
Schulte (front view)
Seymour (batting)
Shaw (St. Louis)
Sheckard (no glove)
Shipke
F. Smith (Chicago)
Spade
Spencer
Stahl (no glove)
Steinfeldt (portrait)
Stone
Stovall (portrait)
Sullivan
L. Tannehill
Tenney
Tinker (portrait)

Tinker (hands on knees)
Turner
Waddell (portrait)
Waddell (throwing)
Wagner (bat on left)
Honus Wagner
Wallace
Walsh
Weimer
Doc White (portrait)
Wilhelm (hands at chest)
Williams
Willis (Pittsburg)
Wiltse (portrait - no cap)
CYoung (portrait)
CYoung (bare hand)


TED Z
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[tedzan]

An ongoing internet survey that has sampled 100,000+ T206 cards has revealed that the unique group of eight T206's that I refer to as the "Elite Eight"......
Link to 2008 "Elite 8" thread: http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...hlight=elite+8
......has 3 additional "cousins"....therefore, we now have the "Elite Eleven" Thanks goes to Scot Reader for discovering these 3 additional cards.

For you new guys on Net54 that are interested in such nitty-gritty things regarding T206's, I will reprise the history of the "Elite Eleven" here............

In 2006, a number of us T206 "nut-54er's" conducted numerous surveys on this forum. Starting with Barry Arnold's famous EPDG thread regarding certain
"150/350 series" cards. These surveys resulted in sorting out 14 subjects from the then so-called 150/350 series.

1st......we established that Red Ames (hands at chest) and Larry Doyle (throwing) are 150-only subjects. Previously, thought to be 150/350 subjects.

2nd......initially we narrowed this group of 14 subjects to 7 of the 8 that are pictured in this 1st group of scans......Dahlen, Ewing, Ganley, Tom Jones, Karger,
Lindaman, and Mullin (horiz.)....and, we included Lundgren (Cubs).

3rd......Frank Schulte (front view) was originally considered in the surveys as part of this "Elite" group, not enough info was available then to include this card.
However, one unique sample of this Schulte exists with a PIEDMONT 350 back. But, no associated EPDG has yet to be found.


4th.....although, Schaefer and Spencer were originally considered in the surveys as belonging to this "Elite" group, these 2 subjects were not included in 2006.
Shaw was not considered.

What makes these 11 subjects quite unique is this.....the majority of the population of these 11 are found with 150 series backs (PIEDMONT, SOVEREIGN, and
SWEET CAPORAL, and Brown HINDU). And, very rarely found with 350 series backs PIEDMONT 350 and EPDG.

"Elite Eleven" subjects






Although Lundgren (Cubs) was not printed with HINDU, SOVEREIGN, nor SWEET CAPORAL....this card is very similar to the ELITE 11
with respect to the initial 350 press runs of PIEDMONT 350 and EPDG backs. Therefore, I have included Lundgren with this group.



NOTE
Approx. 7 years ago I acquired a fairly decent lot of T206's from a dealer in Atlanta. All these cards were from an original collection from that area of Georgia.
This collection was strictly PIEDMONT's; and, I was pleasantly surprised to find 6 of the Elite 8 cards in this group.

Very recently, another original collection of T206's (all PIEDMONT's) was discovered in the Atlanta area. And, this collection included several of the cards we
now refer to as the "Elite Eleven".

My theory 7 years ago was these very rare T206's were only distributed in Georgia. This recent find appears to substantiate my theory regarding these cards.


TED Z
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[Gradedcardman]

Ted,

I would like to see scans of the following confirmed Piedmont 42's:

Bergen Catching
Murray Portrait
Overall Yellow Sky

I have been researching and looking for proof of these cards existing and have had no luck. With them confirmed via both yourself and T206 resource I would have to believe their are scans somewhere.

If so then I need to add these to my needed for completion list.

Thanks in advance !!!

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Gradedcardman

Ted,

I would like to see scans of the following confirmed Piedmont 42's:

Bergen Catching
Murray Portrait
Overall Yellow Sky

I have been researching and looking for proof of these cards existing and have had no luck. With them confirmed via both yourself and T206 resource I would have to believe their are scans somewhere.

If so then I need to add these to my needed for completion list.

Thanks in advance !!!

Adam

Here is what my records (dating back to 2006) indicate regarding the 3 subjects of interest......

Bergen (catching) ....... Brian Weisner confirmed this one

Murray (portrait) ........ Dave Whipple confirmed this one

Overall (blue sky) ....... No record of confirmation.

Now, it's my turn to ask you a question......

Please provide me a list of the 460-only series cards that you have with PIEDMONT 42 backs ?


Thanks,

TED Z
.

[Gradedcardman]

Still hoping for scans

[tedzan]

Hi Adam

I just returned today from a vacation in Texas and Oklahoma. I will research my old records regarding these 3 guys to see what I can find.


TED Z
.