Ethical question / Paypal

[Leon]

For me, I used to feel the exact way you describe. I don't anymore. The way I see it now is that you don't get the same protections from paypal when you do a gift type payment. I also justify it, right or wrong, by the almost monopolistic way ebay is now. Tit for tat in my book. They require me to use an online payment and own paypal so know they are going to get the large majority of payments that way and will make billions off of it. No harm no foul to me. But again, I used to be against it except in extraordinary situations. And actually I don't think you can just send a check with ebay.....I think sellers have to take some form of online payment. (I could be wrong but don't think so)

[markf31]

I don't consider it stealing and I'm pretty certain that if Paypal thought they were losing too much money to the gift option, they would have done something about already.

I dislike Paypal immensely, I never throw around the hate word but with Paypal it’s pretty darn close and I avoid them like the plague. I don’t have a Paypal account, I only have Paypal process my payments for Ebay auctions so they never make a cent off my money, not on my end. There are other options out there for selling on Ebay too outside of Paypal that allow you to process credit card payments as a merchant.

Just my 2 cents.

[tonyo]

I haven't put enough thought into it to form a hard and fast opinion.

If someone asks to be paid by gift, I just shrug my shoulders and send a gift. Or decide if I want to add the paypal fee to my payment. If someone suggests it's up to me to decide, I usually send gift if a small amount and regular paypal if large. I'm fairly confident that paypal would stop the service if it became a big problem for them.

I usually mix in a "payment owed" here and there. I haven't read the fine print, but it seems to have the same results.


There was one occasion when I tried to send a gift, but paypal didn't allow it for some reason. I seem to recall thinking it had to do with the receiving address resembling a possible business name.....



I don't sell much, but come to think of it, I think my current practice is to not request a gift, but gladly accept it. I build in the cost of paypal gift to my asking price. My last sell I posted an asking price, the buyer asked if I would accept a lower price, I met him in the middle "if he used paypal gift" ........... not sure what that says about my ethics or lack thereof



Also a bit of an aside since Leon mentioned ebay's near monopoly......I bought a card on ebay last night. When I went to pay, I was directed to Propay. Huh?... what's this? I back tracked looking for a paypal option (since I try to run my collecting through a seperate account tied to paypal), but didn't see one. Thought about emailing the seller to ask to use paypal, but decided to not go thru the hassle. It worked fine I suppose.

[bbcard1]

don't get me wrong, it's not my biggest ethical delimma...but i am interested in hearing other guy's take. I don't mind to use PPGift if I know someone or if it's someone I have seen on the board a lot.Lately, I have had more and more people pay me by check on on-board transactions, which suits me fine. It gives me an excuse to walk my dog out to the bank.

[T206Collector]

PayPal once sent me a nasty email saying I was receiving payments for goods as a gift and that I had to stop at once or risk losing my account. I am always careful to just say "Congratulations!" or "Happy Birthday!" in my emails when I send payment via gift.

It has become so common a practice on Net54 that when I sell something I hardly even have to ask whether I want it as a gift. It is basically accepted practice. And PayPal certainly doesn't have to permit that service.

[SetBuilder]

Ethical dilemma? No.

PayPal + eBay is a multi-billion dollar monopoly.

I have no problem finding ways around their fees.

[celoknob]

When I am selling something I never ask for "gift"; I'm not comfortable with that at all.

With that said, if someone is offering something I really want and requests paypal "gift" I will usually oblige without comment, and I don't lose sleep over it. So maybe my ethics are a little soft on this one but I definitely prefer no "gifts" for true transactions.

[rainier2004]

I'm a very anal person and analyze the hell out of things like this topic and here is my logic:

PP gift is eligible for "family and friends" per their policy, not mine. On ebay I would never do gift, ever. On net54 I will do gift every time. You guys meet my definition of "friend" as I can trust you, some of you guys actually look out for me, I have communicated with several of you several times and if I bumped into a guy wearing a net54 shirt on the street, I certainly would say hi and be excited to talk to them. I feel comfortable w/o any coverage in the transaction and thats what it is for, per THEIR policy. To use someone's service you must abide by their rules, I consider that ethical irregardless of the law as I feel law and the history of law sheds shadow on ethic debates (I'm not bashing laws either, but ethics are a different issue).

The fact that their billion dollar companies, monopoly, etc is irrelevant to me but all about "taking down the man" too so to each their own. I'd be willing to pay other ways as well but pp gift is sooo easy.

[kcohen]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

PP gift is eligible for "family and friends" per their policy, not mine. On ebay I would never do gift, ever. On net54 I will do gift every time. You guys meet my definition of "friend" as I can trust you, some of you guys actually look out for me, I have communicated with several of you several times and if I bumped into a guy wearing a net54 shirt on the street, I certainly would say hi and be excited to talk to them.

Man, now THAT is a juicy rationalization.

[smtjoy]

I pretty much dont use it for most of the reasons listed. Many times I have purchased something from the BST and it list gift and I just pay the fee (if you have a balance no fee is charged) so that I get buyer protection and seller gets the full amount.

I think the seller just wants to get the total amount, I have had a buyer or two on here that paid for a card and I had to pay the fees which sucked, I always feel like when I sell a card $45 on the BST I should receive that amount and twice lately that has not happened I get $45 less the 4% fee. Anyone else have that issue?

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by smtjoy

Many times I have purchased something from the BST and it list gift and I just pay the fee (if you have a balance no fee is charged) so that I get buyer protection and seller gets the full amount.

I think the seller just wants to get the total amount, I have had a buyer or two on here that paid for a card and I had to pay the fees which sucked, I always feel like when I sell a card $45 on the BST I should receive that amount and twice lately that has not happened I get $45 less the 4% fee. Anyone else have that issue?

I've never had that option to have the fee waived with a balance...I need a balance/or link straight to bank account to send pp gift w/o a fee. Am I missing something?

Also, last I looked pp charged 2.9% plus 30 or 60 cents per transaction, did that go up?

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by celoknob

When I am selling something I never ask for "gift"; I'm not comfortable with that at all.

With that said, if someone is offering something I really want and requests paypal "gift" I will usually oblige without comment, and I don't lose sleep over it. So maybe my ethics are a little soft on this one but I definitely prefer no "gifts" for true transactions.

That's my approach. I use PP tied to a CC, so when I pay by gift the fees are added on my end and the seller nets the full amount. Bottom line, it's not a gift (as much as I like and trust the folks here) and PP is not in business to provide their service to me for free by manipulation.

[sycks22]

I paid and got paid via paypal gift all the time in previous years until they shut down my gifting ability. I still use them all the time to pay / receive funds, but they take out their fees now. It kind of blows, but it's ok. The best thing about paypal is you get the money immediately and can ship the next day and don't have to worry about if the person is sending the check.

[kcohen]

This subject came up in a thread some time ago. I normally add the fees and pay by regular Paypal. I'm uncomfortable with gift as using it under false pretenses like that is on it's face fraudulent and I'm uneasy with that. One's opinion of Paypal is irrelevant in my view. And no, I don't see people who hold the opposite view as bad people. I probably hold this view because of the inordinate amount of guilt instilled in me by my Jewish mother.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by kcohen

This subject came up in a thread some time ago. I normally add the fees and pay by regular Paypal. I'm uncomfortable with gift as using it under false pretenses like that is on it's face fraudulent and I'm uneasy with that. One's opinion of Paypal is irrelevant in my view. And no, I don't see people who hold the opposite view as bad people. I probably hold this view because of the inordinate amount of guilt instilled in me by my Jewish mother.

+1

Would add to that: Here, we have the choice to use Paypal or not, so it isn't like we are forced to use it. My feeling is that if I choose freely to use a service I should pay for it. I give the buyers the option of check/cash/MO or paypal +3% and as a buyer I add the 3% to the purchase rather than use the gift function in a manner that I feel does not comport with my view of business ethics.

I take a similar tack with tipping valet parking attendants. If I am forced to use a valet service to park my car, as is often the case at a hotel, I won't tip for the 'privilege' of being forced to use a service I don't want. If I choose to use it, however, rather than park the car myself I am willing to tip for it. That [with other things] probably makes me a jerk, but that's how I roll...

[HRBAKER]

Well said Adam.