The Goodwin Plank and Magie are TRIMMED!

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by danmckee

That isn't an angle cut at the top left corner, that is a blatant dog ear'd cut.

And yes an angle cut would be fine but the bottom edge would need a matching opposite angle cut. This wavey bottom edge on the Green Cobb is flat across.

Not always true. As far as I can tell, there's nothing wrong with the bottom of this one:

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Not always true. As far as I can tell, there's nothing wrong with the bottom of this one:

Bottom may be ok Scott, maybe top got hacked down funky as it looks like it should be significantly larger all of the way across.

Maybe Ted Z or Jim Rivera or Tim Cathey the T206 experts could chime in here but I don't think what you are showing can happen in the factory with what we know of the cutting process?

dan

[danmckee]

6000+ views and rocking!

This is a kick-ass thread!

I see what Bill told me with the Cobb Bat off, that card looks good from the scan and looks like it would have warranted a numerical grade. Very interesting, has anyone looked at the other Authentics? How many look good?

[Peter_Spaeth]

As long as we are at it, comments on this one?

[danmckee]

my opinion, top and bottom are hacked. But I welcome other opinions and I think we need the larger raw scan so that the holder insert doesn't deceive us at the corners.

John Wonka can you add the raw Magie for us?

Thank you

[danmckee]

I guess we must remember as Bruce stated, SGC has had these in their hands and we haven't. Working off of scans is much different than in person. They are nice expensive cards and will be treasured by whoever purchases them.

[gnaz01]

So, I am not going to out a current auction, but there is this card that is currently up for auction, it is a T206 Cobb Green portrait, and this is the back. The flip says PSA5 Ex, how in the heck can the back damage on this card warrant an Ex!!!!!

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by gnaz01

So, I am not going to out a current auction, but there is this card that is currently up for auction, it is a T206 Cobb Green portrait, and this is the back. The flip says PSA5 Ex, how in the heck can the back damage on this card warrant an Ex!!!!!

We have discussed this one I think. I think this one is just as mind boggling. Paperloss and glue. If it is a legit flip, it almost looks like they only looked at the front? I guess if you are rushed, it could happen.

[danmckee]

Are we missing something here?? Why are these not in psa holders? I would think the PSA registry would command more money than the SGC holder on these huge nice cards no?

[CMIZ5290]

that psa 5 cobb has been on ebay for months....that's one that psa missed badly, or the card was swapped out. hard to believe psa would miss that.

[bxb]

Originally Posted by danmckee

Are we missing something here?? Why are these not in psa holders? I would think the PSA registry would command more money than the SGC holder on these huge nice cards no?

Do we know whether these cards were submitted to PSA first and rejected, and if so is there any way to find out...

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by danmckee

Bottom may be ok Scott, maybe top got hacked down funky as it looks like it should be significantly larger all of the way across.

Maybe Ted Z or Jim Rivera or Tim Cathey the T206 experts could chime in here but I don't think what you are showing can happen in the factory with what we know of the cutting process?

dan

Dan, great thread...

I have one point to make in this huge debate. You state above that you don't think what is showing can happen in the factory with what we know of the cutting process.

The big point is that you are only drawing assumptions about the cut and not known facts. We have never had access to the factory that actually separated these cards, so how can we ever be sure about Plank, Cobb and Magie?

Not trying to stir the pot, just thought I'd ask

mike.ca.ve

[CMIZ5290]

I would like to hear opinions about the sgc 84 joe doyle...that's the one i have a genuine interest in.

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by freakhappy

Dan, great thread...

I have one point to make in this huge debate. You state above that you don't think what is showing can happen in the factory with what we know of the cutting process.

The big point is that you are only drawing assumptions about the cut and not known facts. We have never had access to the factory that actually separated these cards, so how can we ever be sure about Plank, Cobb and Magie?

Not trying to stir the pot, just thought I'd ask

mike.ca.ve

Hi Mike and thanks for posting.

Yes you are correct, I don't know any of this for certain. I do know that handling tobacco cards for years and buying many raw collections that a legit angle cut has always had the opposite angle cut on the other border.

That is why I was hoping Jim R or Tim C or Ted Z could comment on what they know of the cutting practice. I may be mistaking but I thought 1 or all of them did some research on that part. Tim C maybe?

thanks again for the interesting comments
dan

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by danmckee

Hi Mike and thanks for posting.

Yes you are correct, I don't know any of this for certain. I do know that handling tobacco cards for years and buying many raw collections that a legit angle cut has always had the opposite angle cut on the other border.

That is why I was hoping Jim R or Tim C or Ted Z could comment on what they know of the cutting practice. I may be mistaking but I thought 1 or all of them did some research on that part. Tim C maybe?

thanks again for the interesting comments
dan

Dan, I think Steve Birmingham is our man. Theories are great, but having someone who's handled the machinery and studied the history of it, is even better.

[martyp]

Originally Posted by danmckee

Hi Mike and thanks for posting.

Yes you are correct, I don't know any of this for certain. I do know that handling tobacco cards for years and buying many raw collections that a legit angle cut has always had the opposite angle cut on the other border.

That is why I was hoping Jim R or Tim C or Ted Z could comment on what they know of the cutting practice. I may be mistaking but I thought 1 or all of them did some research on that part. Tim C maybe?

thanks again for the interesting comments
dan

Dan, you got me thinking about how Mike's question and your comment about the other border. What if this card was the bottom card on the sheet and all the cuttins was from the top down. Were there bottom borders on the sheets that had to be cut off like the Topps cards or did the bottom edge of the sheet become the bottom edge of the card?
Marty

[FrankWakefield]

"It's amazing how much better these old cards look without any plastic in the way." Sounds to me like Scott has his eyes open, looking at cards, instead of looking at slip numbers. A few years ago I started saving those little slips. Maybe one day some collectors will zero in on the slips, and forgo the cards that some of us collect.

[Exhibitman]

Dan: I don't know about the Cobb; I haven't seen it in person. I am not comfortable definitively opining on a card from a scan in a slab.

Chris: by "crap" I meant from a quality control standpoint, my point in context being that we've all seen T206s that were so badly miscut or misprinted that they can only be viewed as failures of quality control, and if those got out why is it impossible to conceive of a properly printed P150 Plank getting out.

As for a non-parallel cut, it could happen if the sheet slipped in the cutter, depending on the cutting device used. I have a number of Topps cards that are not quite parallelograms in shape.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

"It's amazing how much better these old cards look without any plastic in the way." Sounds to me like Scott has his eyes open, looking at cards, instead of looking at slip numbers. A few years ago I started saving those little slips. Maybe one day some collectors will zero in on the slips, and forgo the cards that some of us collect.

I always de-slab the cards I 'think' are a permanent part of the collection, but save the slips, just in case. I find that buying a beauty like this Matty in a 1.5 holder, then de-slabbing, is quite a bargain. They sold me the slip, I bought the card

[steve B]

Originally Posted by martyp

Dan, you got me thinking about how Mike's question and your comment about the other border. What if this card was the bottom card on the sheet and all the cuttins was from the top down. Were there bottom borders on the sheets that had to be cut off like the Topps cards or did the bottom edge of the sheet become the bottom edge of the card?
Marty

Yes, the sheet would have had a margin on all 4 sides.

Steve B

[tbob]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Not always true. As far as I can tell, there's nothing wrong with the bottom of this one:

I agree with Scott. I have seen many, many caramel cards which were factory cut and had a big diamond cut on the top or bottom border without a matching diamond cut on the other top or bottom. I haven't seen as many of these weird cuts on tobacco cards but I have seen some like the Speaker which was displayed above.
I'm not weighing in on whether the Magie, Plank or Cobb are trimmed, although I do have an opinion, but rather just pointing out that not all diamond/diagonal cuts which don't have a matching opposite border, are hand cut or altered. I might mention I have also seen (and once owned) a very nice orange background Tinker E98 which had a wicked diamond cut left border and a straight right border and it sailed through grading with an SGC 40grade as SGC recognized it was a factory miscut.

[atx840]

Bringing this one back from the past.

[Runscott]

Chris, I didn't realize that it had been roughed up in order to get the numerical grade. That's something that would not have happened prior to the birth of slabbing

I just took the Speaker out and looped the borders very carefully - no problems at all. It's amazing how much better these old cards look without any plastic in the way.

[wonkaticket]

Ahhh the factory cut Hunt Plank (roll eyes)...to slab PSA 3 to Ebay to profit land...