Common sense on BST

Runscott · #1 10-22-2011, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrysloate

It's fine to say "no dealers" but again, everyone's a dealer at some point so it's tough to enforce.

And Scott- do you sell Balabushkas?

I wouldn't suggest any enforcement - I understand the frustration and I'm just saying that if you're going to get offended by flipping, then state 'no dealers' . ...Or you could offer it at a 'fair' price that a dealer would avoid.

I think most of us try not to offend other board members in our dealings and those who do are probably remembered. Also, we are all aware that dealers will swoop in on things they can flip. If we're not, then we're naive.

In the pool cue world, I was thought of as a flipper, but was more of a renter - just like I once did with cards, I wanted to handle as many examples of historic items as I could - it's the only way to learn. I've never owned a Bushka, but I've sold several Rambows and never made a nickel. I currently have one and it's probably my second-favorite collectible, right behind the 1911 bat I have that probably swung at balls thrown by Walter Ball.

Scott <=== has whined plenty of times over deals

Gradedcardman · #2 10-22-2011, 03:41 PM

I agree with Barry. When you are selling you are essentially a dealer. Whether that is the intent or not. When I sell a card on BST I don't look for it in the future. It's sold and the new owner can do whatever he wants and when.

bcbgcbrcb · #3 10-22-2011, 03:44 PM

Same thing as buying stocks, why not turn around the next day and try to double your money if you can?

Exhibitman · #4 10-22-2011, 03:46 PM

A few thoughts:

1. The issue is a non-issue as far as I am concerned because I don't think there's any way to structure a 'golden rule' of BST behavior to prohibit or delay a resale of an item. I set my price and if I give away the item to someone who wants to flip it, so be it.

2. I am reluctant to cast aspersions on a buyer's decisionmaking process without having all of the facts. Circumstances and plans change. I have picked up impulse purchases many times only to quickly decide that the item doesn't fit with my collection. I've also needed to sell cards to make a quick buck to cover an unforeseen expense or take advantage of an unforeseen collecting opportunity. It happens.

3. As long as we're talking karma, there's another metaphysical concept that seems apporpos: detachment. Let it go. If you choose not to wring the top dollar out of your items, accept the possibility that your buyer may flip the item. In the end things pretty much work out as they should. Once a person is known as a notorious flipper, they aren't going to get any breaks here. FWIW, I've noticed that the really rapacious BST flippers have relatively short life-spans here. They seem to wear out their welcomes among the membership and fade back into the woodwork.

3-2-count · #5 10-22-2011, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

FWIW, I've noticed that the really rapacious BST flippers have relatively short life-spans here. They seem to wear out their welcomes among the membership and fade back into the woodwork.

Bingo. These things always seem to just take care of themselves. Simply move on!

calvindog · #6 10-22-2011, 05:59 PM

People can do what they want with what they buy obviously. My problem is when someone begs you for a low price on a card because of his great love for the card -- and then days later has it up on BST at a much higher price. That has happened on here to me. Second, the guys that buy stuff from a known auction house and then days later have it up on BST for double the price -- it's just unethical to some degree. We try to watch out for one another on here -- or at least I hope that we would. Don't be so quick to try to rip off someone here. Memories are long and if you try to screw someone once you may find the next time he has a card to sell you you're going to get scalped.

Section103 · #7 10-22-2011, 06:48 PM

My answer (and I dont consider myself a seller at all, though I did have to liquidate a major chunk of my collection not all that long ago) is to just not sell to that person again. This too might ruffle some feathers, but I dont think Im obligated to sell to "just anyone" if I list on BST. If I had a bad interaction with a member, I reserve the right to not deal with that person again. Leon can crack me in the head and tell me if Im wrong. And I should note, Ive never had the slightest of issue with anyone here. Fortunately, I think Im pretty easy going about all transactions and, like I said, I very rarely sell.

sycks22 · #8 10-22-2011, 07:09 PM

I can see both sides of the tape. If someone tells a seller up front that they're going to put it in their collection and talk down the seller based on these ideas then sells it I have a beef with that. If a seller lists any items for any price and someone buys it at that price and attempts to sell it for a little more there's no problem with that. Calvindog: saying that someone is getting screwed if they buy a card for more than it went for at an auction house is crazy. Do you think people get screwed if they lost out on a T206 Plank for $40k, but then months later they buy it for $65k in another auction? Have you ever purchased a card that sold for less at an auction? Were you screwed in that situation?

Jewish-collector · #9 10-22-2011, 08:01 PM

It happens all the time with the auction houses. Buyer wins card from auction house A, consigns it shortly there after to auction house B. New Buyer wins it, consigns it to auction house C, etc,... It's no big deal. All the buyers from all the auction houses know each other. They talk/discuss/ have a beer about it when they see each other at the National.

It's the same thing on B/S/T, just with fewer zeroes for the prices

calvindog · #10 10-23-2011, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sycks22

I can see both sides of the tape. If someone tells a seller up front that they're going to put it in their collection and talk down the seller based on these ideas then sells it I have a beef with that. If a seller lists any items for any price and someone buys it at that price and attempts to sell it for a little more there's no problem with that. Calvindog: saying that someone is getting screwed if they buy a card for more than it went for at an auction house is crazy. Do you think people get screwed if they lost out on a T206 Plank for $40k, but then months later they buy it for $65k in another auction? Have you ever purchased a card that sold for less at an auction? Were you screwed in that situation?

Pete, you know I'm not talking about months later. I'm talking about hours later. I think we both know what I'm talking about.

Exhibitman · #11 10-23-2011, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog

People can do what they want with what they buy obviously. My problem is when someone begs you for a low price on a card because of his great love for the card -- and then days later has it up on BST at a much higher price. That has happened on here to me. Second, the guys that buy stuff from a known auction house and then days later have it up on BST for double the price -- it's just unethical to some degree. We try to watch out for one another on here -- or at least I hope that we would. Don't be so quick to try to rip off someone here. Memories are long and if you try to screw someone once you may find the next time he has a card to sell you you're going to get scalped.

The 1st scenario is galling but, frankly, involves a line of reasoning from the buyer that I've never found persuasive, as I've always felt that why a buyer wants a card is irrelevant to my pricing and decisionmaking. Or maybe I'm just a bigger dick than you are, Jeff

On the 2nd scenario, I don't see the guy trying to flip a major auction purchase as unethical. Kinda dumb, but not unethical.

Ladder7 · #12 10-23-2011, 06:28 AM

Long ago, I'd sold a card that later appeared back in the Board, marked up. Noone bit, so I made an offer with a fair profit that was rejected. And oh, the card did not sell at that time.

Some months later. I received an inquiry from this chump for another card I was selling... Needless to say, he was ignored.

For those with the objective response. It's an easy, safe stance to take, until it happens to you. Just remember, this is a community, not a straw market. Payback can happen long-time. Steve F

barrysloate · #13 10-23-2011, 06:43 AM

I consider a lot of what people say during a transaction to be background noise, and I try to tune it out. I don't care if you're buying something to give to your sick grandmother, or that you promise to keep it in your collection until the day you die. Every transaction is an agreement between a buyer and a seller, and once the buyer receives payment, and the seller receives the merchandise, the deal is completed. Of course you would ideally like to see some good will transacted too, but it's not a contingency of the deal. If I sell you a card and five minutes later you douse it with kerosene and light a match, I may be very disappointed but I have no control over it.

Unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world. People do lie, some have a change of heart, some run into financial troubles, some have bigger eyes than their wallets allow and have a need to sell the card they promised would never leave their collection. Just make sure that you are happy at the point you sell something, and understand you can't control what might happen in the future. I wish everybody were totally honest in their dealings but they are not. But I wouldn't sell something based on a sob story; economics is what dictates the deal. Understand that going in. and don't set yourself up for disappointment.

Brendan · #14 10-23-2011, 06:49 AM

While I would be slightly angry at myself if someone made a large profit on a card I sold shortly thereafter, I'd have no reason to be angry at the person who sold it. As far as I'm concerned, when I buy a card it's my property and I can do whatever I want with it. If the seller isn't happy because I sell it for more than I bought it for, he should have charged a higher price.

Lying about reasons that you want the card is a whole different story. That's just plain lying. From what I've seen, most people are lying when they use their situation for leverage in a deal. Most people have a certain amount of pride and wouldn't make some excuse for why they should get a card cheaper than someone else. It's the people who don't that will make up some story.

vintagecpa · #15 10-22-2011, 03:46 PM

I agree with pretty much everything that is said. Once you own a card, you can do what you want. It is a collector vs dealer issue. Me being a simple collector makes it harder to understand sometimes. I just hate to see BST moving in that direction. I appreciate the opportunity to express my opinion. I see both sides of the fence. Mike

ruth-gehrig · #16 10-22-2011, 04:58 PM

I absolutely agree on both sides. I'm all for turning for a profit but baseball memorabilia is what I collect. Now I buy and sell other antiques for a profit and put most of those profits towards my baseball collection. I can definately see both sides here and how it would be frustrating to see something relisted especially if you substantially lowered your price because the buyer really wanted it for their collection.

glchen · #17 10-22-2011, 05:34 PM

I can see both sides of it as well. I've been sold cards where the seller had enjoyed the card for a while, and wanted to see the card in a "good home." Sometimes, the seller will give a better deal or soften their negotiating position to see the card in a good home. For example, the seller of the blue background W519-1 knew that I had the maroon and red/pink background ones, and was happy to put this one in a good home with the others. Saying that, everybody's collecting interests change, so people have a right to sell whenever they want. Financial considerations also have an impact. However, it doesn't have to be a rule, but I think it's good etiquette at least, not to flip a card so quickly. Try to at least wait a month or sell it on ebay where it's not so conspicuous. As many posters have said, once the card has been sold, the new buyer can sell whenever he wants. However, the original seller can also sell his cards to whomever he wants. If you know that person is a known flipper like this, the seller doesn't have to sell the card to that person if a lot of people have sent PM's for that card. Doesn't matter if that dealer was the first person to PM/email for that card. The seller can sell to whomever he chooses. Now if the card has been sitting for days, and this dealer/buyer is the only one to want it, then I would say, the owner better just sell the card to that person, and not complain if he sees it again soon on BST.

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