Bccg

[GehrigFan]

Originally Posted by Leon

I am not trying to beat the dead horse here but I have to say, even though I am a huge BVG supporter, and think ya'll are light years ahead of the biggest grading company when it comes to pre-war knowledge and consistency, this scale still has me a bit confused. Here is why:


BCCG 5 (Poor or Better) = BVG 1 or 1.5
BCCG 6 (Good or Better) = BVG 2 or 2.5
BCCG 7 (Very Good or Better) = BVG 3, 3.5, 4, or 4.5
BCCG 8 (Excellent or Better) = BVG 5, 5.5, 6 or 6.5
BCCG 9 (Near Mint or Better) = BVG 7, 7.5, 8 or 8.5
BCCG 10 (Poor or Better) = BVG 9, 9.5 or 10

When we look at the BCCG 5 the scale for BVG is anywhere from 3.5 grades difference to 4 grades difference. As the BCCG grade gets higher the BVG difference gets smaller. That seems a bit confusing to me. I was just taking 4 grades off of BCCG and thought all was good...I guess not We'll have to chat about this one in person again. Is it lunch time yet?

(I am sure you meant the BCCG 10 was NrMint/MT or better and not Poor to Better)

It all comes down to why the system was designed. It was specifically created for the Shop At Home Market, where all the lower tier slabbing companies were putting every card in a 10 holder, no matter what. We were asked for a system that could very quickly, and cost-effectively, give a rough overall grade to massive quantities of cards. The market was for modern cards in massive quantities, such as a retailer submitting 5,000+ LeBron James rookie cards or the like. Eventually, people started grading some BVG because they wanted the cheapest way to just know a card was authentic. But honestly, the original concept didn't even plan on more than a tiny handful of cards slabbed in BCCG holders less than Near Mint. It was never designed for vintage cards. The new cap on value will definitely help in correcting this.

As I've always stated, and tried to convince all our customers, vintage cards do not belong in BCCG holders. They belong in BVG holders. Now if you have 500 cheap Jeter RCs you want slabbed fast and cheap, we can talk BCCG.

[Matt]

Here is my biggest complaint - if the system is intended for the large volume submitters - why can anyone use it? Make a 1000 card minimum on any BCCG order and that will do a ton to limit the misuse that goes on.

[hunterdutchess]

I am suprised that you would make those changes to BCCG. I have seen a ton of pre-1981 cards valued over $300 slabed BCCG. It seems like you are going to lose alot of income by doing so.

[Rich Klein]

realize you should lead with your best; not with something else.

Yes, there are plenty of cards in BCCG holders; but the point is, that the older cards should be fewer and farther between in those holders. You don't want to lead with BCCG; you want to lead with BVG and I could argue that no card pre-1981 should be in a BCCG holder (Hi Mark! )

In all seriousness; BCCG has a reason to exist and I think Mark and his crew are finally getting the leeway to do all the correct things with BCCG that they should have been able to a long time ago

Rich

[showtime]

i have to disagree that he states the bccg 10 will cross to anything between 9-10 in a regular bgs/bvg slab. most 10's i see in bccg would be lucky to get 8.5's. if this were truly the case than i would buy many of the bccg 10's at a huge discount from the same cards in bgs/bvg 9's slabs, and have them reslabbed bgs/bvg. It just doesnt happen and its bs. the funniest part is that a bccg 10 really has a shot at a bgs 10. really, because why in the world would someone have bccg give them the 10 if bgs would, talk about a huge value difference.

[GehrigFan]

Originally Posted by showtime

i have to disagree that he states the bccg 10 will cross to anything between 9-10 in a regular bgs/bvg slab. most 10's i see in bccg would be lucky to get 8.5's. if this were truly the case than i would buy many of the bccg 10's at a huge discount from the same cards in bgs/bvg 9's slabs, and have them reslabbed bgs/bvg. It just doesnt happen and its bs. the funniest part is that a bccg 10 really has a shot at a bgs 10. really, because why in the world would someone have bccg give them the 10 if bgs would, talk about a huge value difference.

Once again, remember it is geared for the corporate/retail market. I have no doubt a guy submitting 10 cards will look over his cards very carefully But a company submitting tens of thousands of cards in large runs does not screen them for BGS 9.5's or 10's. We are finishing up a massive order this month in which I would estimate 50-70% of the BCCG 10's would cross to 9.5, 20-30% BGS 9's, and a handful of Pristines, with zero 8.5's. You may well have seen several BCCG 10's you thought were weak, but the vast majority of the millions of BCCG cards we've graded cross at the chart I listed.

[nebboy]

delete

best to keep my options to myself sometimes!!!!

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Matt

Here is my biggest complaint - if the system is intended for the large volume submitters - why can anyone use it? Make a 1000 card minimum on any BCCG order and that will do a ton to limit the misuse that goes on.

Mark - any response?

[GehrigFan]

Originally Posted by Matt

Mark - any response?

Sure - we are still a business. A lot of people still choose to use this for inexpensive authentication and grading of their cards, and no sensible business model would turn that much revenue away.

[hunterdutchess]

Originally Posted by GehrigFan

Sure - we are still a business. A lot of people still choose to use this for inexpensive authentication and grading of their cards, and no sensible business model would turn that much revenue away.

Thats why I think you should not change your current policy. If someone has a Mantle rookie or a high value card and they want it in a BCCG slab then why turn them down?

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by hunterdutchess

Thats why I think you should not change your current policy. If someone has a Mantle rookie or a high value card and they want it in a BCCG slab then why turn them down?

Because someday, some dealer will sell that Clemente to a kid, or a spouse, or a new collector, maybe sight unseen, by claiming: Becketts graded this a 5! You know it's pretty nice!"

Once that person finds out they have been ripped off, (And to clarify, it's NOT Beckett that ripped them off. It will be the dealer.) they will have a sour taste for the hobby for a long time.

Ever since Dudley Moore and Bo Derek, our country has graded everything on a scale of 1 to 10. We haven't been asked to adjust to a scale that starts at 5.

[hunterdutchess]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

Because someday, some dealer will sell that Clemente to a kid, or a spouse, or a new collector, maybe sight unseen, by claiming: Becketts graded this a 5! You know it's pretty nice!"

Once that person finds out they have been ripped off, (And to clarify, it's NOT Beckett that ripped them off. It will be the dealer.) they will have a sour taste for the hobby for a long time.

Ever since Dudley Moore and Bo Derek, our country has graded everything on a scale of 1 to 10. We haven't been asked to adjust to a scale that starts at 5.

If some one has $ to spend on a Clemente or any other high value card and they can not read BBCG 5 "poor or better" than not to be mean but a fool and his money are soon departed. I have problem with the other b.s. grading companies that have every card graded a "10" or have trimmed cards graded with a high number, not BCCG.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

Because someday, some dealer will sell that Clemente to a kid, or a spouse, or a new collector, maybe sight unseen, by claiming: Becketts graded this a 5! You know it's pretty nice!"

Once that person finds out they have been ripped off, (And to clarify, it's NOT Beckett that ripped them off. It will be the dealer.) they will have a sour taste for the hobby for a long time.

Ever since Dudley Moore and Bo Derek, our country has graded everything on a scale of 1 to 10. We haven't been asked to adjust to a scale that starts at 5.

you asked....

[Matt]

Originally Posted by GehrigFan

Sure - we are still a business. A lot of people still choose to use this for inexpensive authentication and grading of their cards, and no sensible business model would turn that much revenue away.

I think a responsible one might - sometimes businesses make decisions that are for the overall good, even if it adversely effects their bottom line, though the number of such companies is diminishing all the time.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by GehrigFan

Sure - we are still a business. A lot of people still choose to use this for inexpensive authentication and grading of their cards, and no sensible business model would turn that much revenue away.

Mark,

I realize that BCCG wasn't your idea (at least I think it wasn't) and that the decision to use this system is one you defend, for your employer. But I have to disagree with the statement you made above.

"...no sensible business model would turn that much revenue away."

Not every business decision can be boiled down to just dollars and cents. Coachs Corner has a business model that has worked for them for many years. It generates plenty of revenue. But it's bad for the hobby.

Beckett's has always been about things that are good for the hobby. Catalogs, checklists, price guides, magazines, honest grading. Heck, I can even look the other way while you guys are grading and running auctions. The integrity of you company has convinced me that there is enough separation between these divisions that I can live with you doing both.

But BCCG is bad for the hobby as it exists now. The grading scale is confusing to many, especially any novice collectors. While the intention of BCCG is acceptable, the system that allowed anyone to use it, for any card, was bad. To many cards were entombed with numbers between 5 and 9, that aren't what they first present themselves to be.

The change to establishing a $ value cut-off of $300 is a huge step in the right direction. Whoever thought of this, decided for this, or implemented this should be commended.

But Matt's suggestion of a minimum number of cards on a submission is a great additional step. Maybe 1000 is too high for you, but there should be something that stops an individual collector from using this system.

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by GehrigFan

Sure - we are still a business. A lot of people still choose to use this for inexpensive authentication and grading of their cards, and no sensible business model would turn that much revenue away.

Mark, but if you didn't offer this service, wouldn't the submitter just use your other service to submit their cards?
Quite possibly you may not lose as much revenue as you think

[Exhibitman]

No matter what justifications are posted BCCG is just a way for Beckett to make money by enabling TV hucksters to sell worthless crap to ignorant rubes at a vast profit. It is reprehensible in every respect.

No offense personally to Mark...

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

No matter what justifications are posted BCCG is just a way for Beckett to make money by enabling TV hucksters to sell worthless crap to ignorant rubes at a vast profit. It is reprehensible in every respect.

Thank you for someone finally acknowledging the elephant in the room. Lunch is on me.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

No matter what justifications are posted BCCG is just a way for Beckett to make money by enabling TV hucksters to sell worthless crap to ignorant rubes at a vast profit. It is reprehensible in every respect.

No offense personally to Mark...

That's kinda the way I see it. Certainly no disrespect meant as well to Mark, oh sure to the TV hucksters.