its not the auction houses fault its the bidders

[bobfreedman]

I currently run the software for Legendary Auctions and at their request we have disabled anyone from Legendary Auctions the ability to view any of the Max bids. They do not ask me or anyone within my company to view or manipulate any bids whatsoever. This has been the case since they began using our software.

This will probably not satisfy some cynics but I thought that at least the facts be known.

Bob Freedman
CEO, SimpleAuctionSite

Our clients cannot turn this feature on or off.

[Jim VB]

Did you have the same agreement with Mastro, or were they able to view the bids?


And, would you be able to tell us if that's how it works with each and every one of your auction house clients?

[Mr. Mitt]

Thanks Bob... I'm not here to start a pissing match, but I bid the way I do, incrementally without using the "max bid" feature, because if viewing maximum bids must be disabled, then there is a way of enabling it. I'm not saying you or your clients misuse this feature, but I feel more comfortable with straight bids. Just a personal preference that I'm entitled to.

[barrysloate]

Hi Bob- hope you are well. For the record, Bob did my software too during my last few years of doing auctions. But he did not do Mastro's software, that was a different company.

In my case I did have access to max bids, but I never considered it an issue, since I never fooled around with them.

[oriolesbb6]

I guess anything can happen at anytime with an auction, It comes back to using your own judgment and only paying what You deem to be the price. I work with various auction houses on the local level-antiques/estates, etc. Each house has there own policies-where to open an item, reserve/no reserve, dealers prohibited from bidding on their own items, etc. I have seen shill bidding take place(I don't buy there) and I have not seen it. Is there an ultimate solution? The only one is to bid what you are comfortable, if you are not sure of a company then don't bid.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

Did you have the same agreement with Mastro, or were they able to view the bids?


And, would you be able to tell us if that's how it works with each and every one of your auction house clients?

Jeff,

In defense of Bob, I asked a question about 4 minutes after his post and he hasn't responded yet. You'll have to wait.

Bob has a history of coming on the board briefly. Defending one of his paying customers and then disappearing again for long periods of time.

[Jim VB]

And while we're at it, while I understand the point the original poster was trying to make, the title of this thread is ridiculous. That's like saying "It's not poor Jeffrey Dahmer's fault! It's those 17 stupid people who allowed themselves to be killed and eaten."

[ElCabron]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

And while we're at it, while I understand the point the original poster was trying to make, the title of this thread is ridiculous. That's like saying "It's not poor Jeffrey Dahmer's fault! It's those 17 stupid people who allowed themselves to be killed and eaten."

This explains why my "Blame the children, not the pedophiles" bumper stickers haven't been selling. Another failed business venture.

Maybe I should get into the auction business. I hear it's pretty lucrative if you do it right.

-Ryan

[JP]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

And while we're at it, while I understand the point the original poster was trying to make, the title of this thread is ridiculous. That's like saying "It's not poor Jeffrey Dahmer's fault! It's those 17 stupid people who allowed themselves to be killed and eaten."

That and the lack of punctuation makes it look like an e.e. cummings' poem or a line from "Flowers for Algernon."

[ScottFandango]

just curious, is this your first auction with Legendary? have they used you before, or are you a recent attempt by them to gain back trust?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

And while we're at it, while I understand the point the original poster was trying to make, the title of this thread is ridiculous. That's like saying "It's not poor Jeffrey Dahmer's fault! It's those 17 stupid people who allowed themselves to be killed and eaten."

Jeffrey Dahmer did not kill ME or anyone I know. Therefore I have no problem with him.

[calvindog]

Plus it wasn't like he targeted me in particular. He caught and boiled anyone who wandered by.

[Wymers Auction]

In fairness to Bob Freedman, he only provides the vehicle or software. The auctioneer makes the choice to be honest or misuse bidder's trust. A dishonest auctioneer could pay someone to create whatever code he wants.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by bobfreedman

I currently run the software for Legendary Auctions and at their request we have disabled anyone from Legendary Auctions the ability to view any of the Max bids. They do not ask me or anyone within my company to view or manipulate any bids whatsoever. This has been the case since they began using our software.

This will probably not satisfy some cynics but I thought that at least the facts be known.

Bob Freedman
CEO, SimpleAuctionSite

Our clients cannot turn this feature on or off.

Bob, I hate to be a cynic but I do have a simple question: does your software allow the customer, i.e. the auction house principal, to have access to the bidders' passwords?

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Bob, I hate to be a cynic ...

Sure you do.

[Rich Klein]

This is a quote from MVSNYC

"i agree, some very strong prices, but there were also some deals to be had...i was watching that Elberfeld, but forgot to bid, as i was out the other night...looks like someone did get a great deal on it."

You realize; if he had put in a max bid in advance of let's say 60 percent of the current price; he might have the card right now. And if he were "Shilled" to that level; but had put that bid in earlier; he might be the winner of that card at a nice price point lower than current market levels. So, is not putting in a max bid ever the answer. I'd say no. because if something comes up and you can't bid on an item during the conclusion of an auction, well then,... you have not allowed yourself the back-up and am marrying yourself to having to sit at the screen all night.

So, by not putting in a max bid; he actually cost himself a decent card at a good level -- so I don't know if not putting in a bid is always the answer either.

Regards
Rich

[barrysloate]

Jeff- I can answer your question since Bob did my software: yes, I had access to bidders' passwords. Now that doesn't mean it is impossible to implement a different system, but I can't speak for Bob.

[benjulmag]

It's not that simple to simply refrain from leaving a max bid. In the case of many whales/recognized collectors, certain auctions houses simply know that these collectors have a way to go before they have reached their max. In some cases, these auction houses have over the years been asked to be on the lookout for certain cards/memorabilia items in the hopes of doing a private transaction. In other cases, these auction houses simply know the collecting habits of their well-healed collectors so well that they know with a high degree of confidence what these collectors will spend. So when such an item finally should appear in an auction, all the auction house needs to do is call up a friend or two (or maybe a silent minority owner of the auction house), "suggest" that this is a good investment item up to a certain level (just below the level the auction house knows that the whale/recognized collector will bid), and bingo, the item will almost always reach that stratospheric level. I have reason to believe the FBI has been tipped off to this practice, as well as the risk that certain auction houses will out of desperation seek ways to alter their bidding records in ways undetectable to law enforcement. It is my understanding the FBI has tremendous expertise/experience in computer-record-alteration, and feels highly qualified to detect it should it occur.

[sflayank]

very good point
that is why i have 3 different accounts with most auction houses
different names and addresses so they dont know its me who is bidding

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Jeff- I can answer your question since Bob did my software: yes, I had access to bidders' passwords. Now that doesn't mean it is impossible to implement a different system, but I can't speak for Bob.

Barry, give Bob a break. I'm sure the software has changed since then because what would be the point of locking out viewing max bids of bidders if the auction house could access the bidders' passwords -- and check themselves? As noted by Corey, such a possibility would be a bit unnerving. I'm sure Bob will acknowledge shortly that the software has been improved since your last auction.

[Boomer]

Don't forget Legendary did not change passwords. Mastro is still a collector and has all the passwords. He can look at all bids and bid himself knowing the other bidders max

[calvindog]

What if Mastro was a consignor in this auction? Like a significant consignor?

[irishdenny]

Originally Posted by calvindog

What if Mastro was a consignor in this auction? Like a significant consignor?

Well as far as I know, he almost was and probably is!

He tried Awfully hard to Squeeze a Pretty Valuable Card from me about a month ago... And then he tactfully implied that I was being taught a lesson for not selling the card to him.

I will never have anything to do with him or anyone that he's involved with.

[calvindog]

That's a shame. I would have thought that washing the feet of the lepers in Calcutta would have humbled the man. Oh well.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Bob, I hate to be a cynic but I do have a simple question: does your software allow the customer, i.e. Legendary Auctions, to have access to the bidders' passwords?

I'm sure that some of the cynics on the board believe that Bob hasn't answered this question yet because, in fact, his software does not prevent his customers from learning the passwords of the bidders in their auctions and, thereby, learning all of their bids. I would rather believe that he has just been super-busy on this holiday and stuff.

[murcerfan]

^^great point

[Wymers Auction]

Murcerfan who are you telling to shut up?

[rainier2004]

I put my max bid in with 24 hrs to go and it sold for 1 increment less than my max. After I put in my max bid there was only 1 additional bid until the end of the auction.

[E93]

Bidders (customers) have a right to presume the companies they do business with are running an honest business. Unfortunately that is not the case with many auction houses in this hobby.

"Its not the auction houses (sic) fault its (sic) the bidders (sic)" is equivalent to saying its not the rapist's fault, it is the victim's fault for looking attractive to the rapist.
JimB