Legendary T-206 Honus Wagner

[onlychild]

Can any card that was once restored, with honest disclosure, make it into a numbered holder once the restoration was removed?

Yes...absolutely. I have a great example as well, Auth to 3. Sometimes, to remove an alteration, added ink, stock etc, the card would need to be realtered to get a grade...especially higher than a 1.

It may bring up a good debate. Is removing heavy restoration work on a card altering it?

Can't understand this one though, it looked trimmed in the restored state. How could removing the restoration work change that? Seems it would go from Auth to Auth. Perhaps they were hoping for a 1. Realistically could it get any higher?

On a side note, an artist sketch displayed a Leon-looking guy seen in the grassy knoll. Humm...and he lives in Texas? Then again (from sketch) he could be Keyser Soze.

Kevin Saucier
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[bijoem]

Originally Posted by onlychild

Yes...absolutely. I have a great example as well, Auth to 3. Sometimes, to remove an alteration, added ink, stock etc, the card would need to be realtered to get a grade...especially higher than a 1.

It may bring up a good debate. Is removing heavy restoration work on a card altering it?

Kevin.... when your card was resubmitted - was the prior alteration, and the new 'removing restoration' disclosed?

I have no doubt that grading companies can be fooled.... I am just wondering what their official policy is if all is told to them. If restoration is removed - are graders okay with possibly giving it a number grade?

[onlychild]

Originally Posted by bijoem

Kevin.... when your card was resubmitted - was the prior alteration, and the new 'removing restoration' disclosed?

I have no doubt that grading companies can be fooled.... I am just wondering what their official policy is if all is told to them. If restoration is removed - are graders okay with possibly giving it a number grade?

Good question. No it was not disclosed. The restoration (or alteration) was found out by mistake. It was soaking and a rebuilt corner just fell off, this was of course, fascinating. It had already been rejected as evidence of trimming (not by me), if I'm not mistaken. Seems the two edges had been trimmed back (ever so slightly) to accommodate the rebuilt material.

I set aside the rebuilt material, trimmed and reshaped the bottom and side edges as well as and new corner to blend with the missing stock. It was sent in for grading as an experiment and came back a 3. It's currently on my website with a disclosure.

It is my opinion that removing a restoration with nothing else being done, would be in fact, be altering the card once again. I can't imagine that a grading company would think any differently if it were to be disclosed.

Yes, at least there has been full disclosure with the Wagner but I can see where it would raise some other debatable questions.


Kevin Saucier
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[batsballsbases]

Its amazing in reading the description I think the 2 best lines are
1) "The item underwent a measure of careful and professional restoration"

2) " The restorers work consisted primarily of inpainting to hide paper loss,subdue creases,and compensate for the erosion of ink pigmantation"

I do give them credit for at least stating in the description that the card is altered but boy an academy award should be given to the writer of this descriptionor at the very least he should be given 5K on the final hammer price for that prolific style of writing! Can you say lipstick on a pig.

[calvindog]

I just have one question to ask: what kind of malevolent jackass would screw around and alter a 75K card?

[chaddurbin]

A+ to legendary for being upfront with full disclosure of all the restorations dating back to the 80's...even tho doug wasn't sure of the card's would be grade a month ago.

where can i read the description in case it made into a 1 holder?

[batsballsbases]

Jeff,
I was going to say the same thing! Why would you do that to one of the grails of the hobby. I believe the card would have done much better without all that work. But I guess the same question could be asked about the Plank! But I guess we can save that story for another day!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

where can i read the description in case it made into a 1 holder?

I think it's in the same chapter about me protecting banner advertisers .

[batsballsbases]

Leon,
I read that book also! I believe the next line was "Do on to others but never let it be done to me" A quote from the mastro handbook

[barrysloate]

Yes, removing restoration would be a form of altering.

If you gain weight and let out your pants, then lose weight and have them tapered again, you've altered them twice. Doesn't matter which direction you go.

[Leon]

I was never on the grassy knoll on Dallas. I lived in Houston at the time Kennedy was assasinated. I think I was about 1.

As for this Wagner....at least there is enough of a description that anyone bidding on it knows exactly where it stands today. That is a heck of a lot more than I can say about some other high value cards I have seen sold....best regards