High grade T206 backs....question for you owners.

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Posted By: Dave

This is to Jim C, MVS, Brian W, and any of the rest that have PSA 8 or 9's or SGC equals....

I'd be curious to know how many of your high grade T206 have backs other than Sweet Caporal or Piedmont?

American Beauty
Broadleaf
Carolina Brights
Cycle
Drum
EPDG
Hindu
Lenox
Old Mill
Polar Bear
Sovereign
Tolstoi
Uzit

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Posted By: Cobby33

Old Mill South PSA 8 (on eBay now).

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Posted By: Dave

Even though it is a fairly common back...I'm curious if there are any Polar Bears in high grade. I would imagine with the loose tobacco and large amount of them that were stained it is going to be difficult to find any PSA 8 or 9's.

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Posted By: Dave

Cobby, if the Old Mill is yours email me when you get a chance...question.

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Posted By: MVSNYC

dave-

i own a joss, pitching, PSA 7, sovereign

i used to own a few PSA 8 old mills, and one PSA cycle.

other than that, good luck, it is super tuff to find 8's & 9's in anything other than piedmont & sweet cap.

polar bear, very tuff, i have a PSA 6, that's the highest i have seen personally.

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Posted By: Dave

Is the PSA 6 totally free of any staining?

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Posted By: MVSNYC

"totally free of any staining"? i'll have to check, but i remember that it looks clean for a polar bear...might have some light staining.

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Posted By: Dave

I can't remember any T206's in PSA 8's or 9's that havent' been PD or SC for auction...other than a pretty rare SL'ger with Old Mill back..have to wonder at that point if even a American Beauty or Tolstoi would go for a premium..

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Posted By: MVSNYC

An American Beauty PSA 8 just sold for $3,650, that is about $1000 more than common 8's are going for now...and i know someone with a PSA 8 Hindu (he wants around $7000+ for it)...

bottom line is, yes premiums still apply at that level.

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Posted By: John

Although not NM when I went looking for these it was very tough to find these in good shape much less free of staining. I consider these high-grade for these varations most are found in VG or less and have multiple stains. Don’t know if this answers your question…

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Posted By: Dave

Yes John...definately the best conditioned Polar Bears I've ever seen. These obviously don't belong in this category..but an example of two of my Polar Bears below and why I think high grade is near impossible....I think a Polar Bear PSA 8 should command a fairly large premium IMO.

These are ugly...

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Posted By: John

Nice looking cards not ugly at all, just the typical stains that riddle PB backs. I agree really clean PB backed cards should have an added boost. But most people consider PB common, so unless super high grade or Demmitt or O’hara I doubt we will see much of a premium for clean PB backs.

I have also found Hindu backs tough to find clean and free of toning anyone else, or am I alone and just finding all the dirty ones LOL.

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Posted By: leon

John- those are some of the nicest looking PB's I have ever seen. Really clean....

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Posted By: JimB

Wow John. Those are really nice.
JimB

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Posted By: John

Thanks, Leon and Jim.

Jim that means a lot coming from you the Mr. Mint of E93's I've spent more time eye balling your E93's on the net than I have looking at naked lady pics....which come to think of it is kinda of sad.....

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Posted By: barrysloate

Naked ladies and E93's...what a combination!

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Posted By: MVSNYC

hi, for some reason, the PB pics are not loading for me...can you try attaching them differently?

MS

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Posted By: JimB

John,
Thanks for the kind words about my E93s. As you can imagine, I am currently experiencing some Demmitt Envy right now.
JimB

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Posted By: MVSNYC

leon, someone else? can you guys take John's PBs and put them in a link? the images are NOT loading up for me

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Posted By: John

Demmitt envy, LOL. More than likely has the same taste as E93 "Cherry Mint" Waddell envy. Or so I guess.

Barry, as for naked ladies on the web that’s just the word on the street, could just be a rumor....

Mike I could email them to you I guess? Cant understand why they wont load for ya.

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Dave,
I have 6's and 7's of almost every back but Drum. I have 6-7 8's with Old Mill, but they are all Southern Leaguers.

Here are a couple of nice Hindu Southern Leaguers:

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Posted By: John

Wow nice cards Brian! Are you working the T206 set or collecting mostly backs etc? Anyhow very nice cards, thanks for showing them.

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Posted By: MVSNYC

john- my work computer sometimes does not let me load images...email sent, please send me scans to see. thanks.

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Posted By: MVSNYC

dave, to clarify my first post from earlier...

i have the following rare backs, ALL PSA graded.

Drum 4
Uzit 3
Red Hindu 1
Piedmont 42 3
Lenox 3
Broad Leaf 350 3
Carolina Brights 3
Brown Hindu 3 (SL)
Tolstoi 5
EPDG 5
Am. Beauty 5
Cycle 5
Old Mill 5
Sovereign 5
Polar Bear 6
Sweet Caporal 7
Piedmont 8

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Posted By: John

Email sent,

At work??? Work's for suckers.

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi John,
Actually I broke up my set several years ago to focus on building the set back with as many rare backs as possible. So Southern League Hindu's are at the top of my list. I'm only missing 2 cards to complete the set.
Be well Brian


PS I've bought and sold quite a few O'Hara and Demmitt's over the years, but haven't handled any as nice as those...

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Posted By: MVSNYC

got them...wow, ok very nice polar bears!

p.s. work? i sat at my desk all day and negotiated some deals for PSA 9 T206s...

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Michael,
Instead of casual Friday, you had card buying Friday. How many 9's are you buying? lmk Brian



PS Barry must have taken Friday off too... Is anyone in the Big Apple working today??? I know if the weather is bad that NEWMAN isn't...

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Posted By: MVSNYC

brian- i am actually in my real work office...

just had a catch-up day, and was on the phone a few times about some 8's & 9's (actually selling them, not buying)...

looking forward to our dinner in a few weeks.

maybe i'll bring the PSA 10 (if i still own it by then)

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Posted By: peter ullman

This lenox is as high grade as my collection gets...it's a scg 60.

pete in mn

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Posted By: barrysloate

Brian- I don't actually work, I just do projects.

And Newman doesn't deliver the mail when it rains.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Brian, have no fear -- I was hailing a cab at 4:30 am in the rain in NYC this morning on the way to work...

Of all my 7s and 8s, I have a bunch of Sovereign but only one Cycle (Chase Throwing Dark Cap). Nothing else in a rare back at that level.

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Posted By: Dave

Interesting...still no Polar Bears above a PSA 6?

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Posted By: Mike Ellis

Dave, I have an SGC 80, Gavvy Cravath, Polar Bear 6. Mike

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Posted By: George Dreher

I have about 40 of my T206 cards graded PSA-8 and own none graded higher than that. Here is the breakdown of the 40:

Piedmont: 17
Sweet Caporal: 8
Old Mill: 6
Polar Bear: 4
Sovereign: 3
Tolstoi: 2

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Posted By: Dave

Wow George....4 Polar Bear backs in an 8....that may not be able to be topped...and 2 Tolstoi's too boot.

Which cards are the Polar Bears?

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Posted By: Dave

George and Mike..if either of you have scans would love to see posted.

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Posted By: George Dreher

They are at my bank in safe deposit. My inventory list indicates that the Polar Bear backs are: Dummy Taylor, Bob Hall, F. Smith Chicago Amer., and Moose McCormick

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Posted By: Dave

They are at my bank in safe deposit.


Well...can't blame you there...although I do think for insurance purposes I would at least get scans of each card front and back....can't be too careful especially with $2500+ cards...

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Posted By: Dylan

Sometimes i'll see a mid grade polar bear for sale and it wont sell for much of a premium. I know there pretty common but considering how tough they are in even psa 4,5 range i think they should be valued more

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Posted By: MVSNYC

dylan, i agree.

i paid a premium recently for a PSA 5 PB ($175)...

and i did get a PSA 6 also recently, but i have not seen anything higher...

they are VERY tuff in high grade.

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Posted By: Jay

I just looked through all of my cards and was very surprised at the lack of higher grade Polar Bears. In fact, all minus 2 exhibit the traditional staining etc. The other two are very clean, but are still in the VG-EX range because of other small problems.

It makes sense to me that we are having trouble finding Polar Bear 7's and 8's, but since I have seen several clean PB's I bet they do exist.

Also, what other cigarette companies sold scrap tobacco, and would have stained cards?

Jay

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Posted By: Jim Rivera

Pete
i have the same black Lenox and gave it to SGC today at the Reading show. I am hoping for at least a 60 and I think it may be a 70.I have a SGC 60 Oldring/Lenox and I hope the Abbaticchio beats it.

As for other rare backs -I have SGC 70s of Carolina Brights, EPDG and Piedmont 42. Most of the others I have in 60s/5s with several Polar Bear 5s.
The best Drum I have is a 4.

Most of these cards I got from ebay raw.

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Posted By: peter ullman

great jim...I guess that card is the most common lenox back out there!!!!!!! good luck on the grade!

pete in mn

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Posted By: MVSNYC

hi jim, i have a PSA 4 DRUM also, is yours PSA too?

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Posted By: Jim Rivera

MVSNYC
Drum
I have a PSA 4 Freeman and a SGC 40 Fiene and the others are not graded

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Posted By: MVSNYC

jim- what value do you place on the PSA 4 DRUM?

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Posted By: Jim Rivera

I think a SGC 40 sold in a major auction house for $2400 a few auctions ago. And a PSA 1 sold for about 1k not long ago.So I would think somewhere betweet 2 and 3k. But that is just my guess, it is very hard to tell with the T206 market it rises every day.
I saw a ungraded Drum at the Reading show priced at 1800 that would probably grade a 2 at best.Also there was a PSA 2 on the BST listed for 1800.

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Posted By: MVSNYC

well, i think much higher, you just never see Drums graded higher than 2 or 3, so a 4 is a pretty tuff item (and i'm not just saying this to "promote" my Drum 4, because i have NO interest in selling it).

my guess is about $1000 per number grade, i.e:

Drum 1=$1000
Drum 2=$2000
Drum 3=$3000
Drum 4=$4000

rough estimation...

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Posted By: andy becker

i have a sgc 84 jack bliss with polar bear back.

it's an amazing card, i can only imagine what the 8's look like.