1952 Topps - The Missing 3

[Zach Wheat]

As Topps was winding down its 2nd year of cards they were scrambling to complete the 6th and final series of cards. Berger intended the last series to be the grand finale for the set. Afterall, the 3 major New York teams - Dodgers, Yankees and Giants - were playing well and New York was the largest market for bubble gum. Of the 48 Giants and Dogers included in the set, Topps saved 28 of them for the final series.

In previous interviews Sy Berger said he completely misjudged how long it took to print, package and release the last series of cards, resulting in a release after the World Series concluded. The contract with Mantle, purportedly wasn't even signed until late in the summer. Topps reps scrambled to get the final stars under contract and included in the set - but failed on a number of players and 3 cards had to be replaced. In previous interviews, Berger did not reveal which 3 players were pulled from the last series. However, we know Mantle, Robinson and Thompson were hastily created and double printed. Although we may never know for sure - Sy hinted one player/card was his favorite.

Who were those 3 players pulled from the set?

[brian1961]

Thank you for the fascinating post, Zach Wheat. Hopefully, someone will chime in with some definite info. Oh if we only had Sy Berger back, to hit him with 20 questions, including this one-----at what point in time, Sy, did you begin to regret dumping all those cases of the '52 Topps last series into the Atlantic Ocean? --- Brian Powell

[swarmee]

Ted Williams would be an obvious choice, right?
Kiner was in Bowman but not Topps. Nellie Fox.

Is this a trivia question where you know the answer or just want some pontificating?

[irv]

I'll guess and say Ted Williams, Stan Musial and Whitey Ford.

[Zach Wheat]

Surprisingly Rogers Hornsby was a coach in 1952 as well.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by brian1961

Thank you for the fascinating post, Zach Wheat. Hopefully, someone will chime in with some definite info. Oh if we only had Sy Berger back, to hit him with 20 questions, including this one-----at what point in time, Sy, did you begin to regret dumping all those cases of the '52 Topps last series into the Atlantic Ocean? --- Brian Powell

Len Brown, one of the original Topps employees from that era, having started somewhere around 1959ish, is still alive and living in TX. I reached out to contacts that originally interviewed him for articles in SCD, but he has not responded yet.

He has lived an interesting life to date. Well worth reading his interviews

[packs]

I would think Joe D is a good candidate, no? I realize 1951 was his final season but he did get a card in the 1952 Berk Ross set and it would have been his only opportunity for a Topps card.

[swarmee]

Maybe not Ted Williams. He spent most of 1952 flying planes in the Korean War/Conflict.

[egri]

Williams would have to sign that Topps contract from the cockpit of a F9F Panther.

I think we’re looking at this wrong. The same thing happened in 1953, with six players missing from the set. After several years of speculation, they were revealed to be six benchwarmers, not stars, and that’s most likely who Topps missed on in 1952. It makes sense to me that if they were stars, Sy Berger would have gone all out to get them under contract, but for commons, he went with who he already had.

[irv]

Originally Posted by egri

Williams would have to sign that Topps contract from the cockpit of a F9F Panther.

I think we’re looking at this wrong. The same thing happened in 1953, with six players missing from the set. After several years of speculation, they were revealed to be six benchwarmers, not stars, and that’s most likely who Topps missed on in 1952. It makes sense to me that if they were stars, Sy Berger would have gone all out to get them under contract, but for commons, he went with who he already had.

Not conclusive as maybe Sy was just friends with him but I doubt Sy would say he was a favorite if he was just a bench warmer?

"Sy hinted one player/card was his favorite"

[Volod]

Originally Posted by egri

I think we’re looking at this wrong. The same thing happened in 1953, with six players missing from the set. After several years of speculation, they were revealed to be six benchwarmers, not stars, and that’s most likely who Topps missed on in 1952. It makes sense to me that if they were stars, Sy Berger would have gone all out to get them under contract, but for commons, he went with who he already had.

For what it's worth, on his ESPN show in 2014, Keith Olbermann presented a letter from a long-time Topps employee dated 1973 that was discovered by hobby historian Bob Lemke. In it, the former employee stated, "the following players were taken out of the [1953] set...as follows: #253 Joe Tipton; #261 Ken Wood: #267 Hoot Evers; #268 Harry Brecheen; #271 Billy Cox; #275 Pete Castiglione."

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Maybe not Ted Williams. He spent most of 1952 flying planes in the Korean War/Conflict.

Ted was called up from the Reserves on May 1, 1952. Afterwards he was in Korea. Could still be Ted.

[Rrrlyons]

Someone suggested that Honus Wagner was a coach on the pirates until feb of 1952 and since other pirates coaches were in the high series maybe he was supposed to be in the series.

[Rrrlyons]

It does make sense that they could be people in the military and that’s why the phrase “it took longer that expected to get the contracts signed”

[Seven]

It's times like this where I wish Ted Z was still with us, to regale us of some tale concerning collecting the 1952 Topps back in the day.

I think Williams and Joe D are plausible. Maybe Casey Stengel? He did get a card in the Bowman issue. Satchel Paige is another possibility as he did get a card in the 1953 Set.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by Seven

It's times like this where I wish Ted Z was still with us, to regale us of some tale concerning collecting the 1952 Topps back in the day.....

Agree, I miss Ted Z and the insight he brought to the forum.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by irv

I'll guess and say Ted Williams, Stan Musial and Whitey Ford.

Ford was in the military in 1951 and 1952. I would say Ralph Kiner was the third player. Topps had him in their 1951 and 1953 sets.

[toppcat]

No way to tell but I'm curious if cards of the coaches and managers that started with the semi-highs represent slots where Topps was still waiting for a signed contract?

I have doubts Williams was to have appeared in the set as he went on the NDS list (I think that means either Non-Disabled Suspended or Non-Disabled Service) effective 5/2/52. And with DiMaggio retiring on 12/11/51 and being on the Voluntarily Retired List from that date he doesn't seem to fit the contractual parameters for Topps in 1952. I also doubt Musial was a possibility either.

Kiner, on the other hand, very much seems like a candidate.

It's possible some Berk-Ross contracts were exclusive. All four players above were 1952 B-R subjects.

[paul]

I thought the consensus was that the Berk Ross cards were unauthorized, so nobody would have been under an exclusive Berk Ross contract.

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by paul

I thought the consensus was that the Berk Ross cards were unauthorized, so nobody would have been under an exclusive Berk Ross contract.

I've not heard that before but unauthorized over a two year period seems kind of weird. However, I just did a quick search and found this from an early August 1952 Sporting News article:

"SEVEN GIANTS POP POPCORN

Two popcorn firms have been asked by Supreme Court justice Samuel Gold of New York to show cause why they should not be stopped from placing pasteboard photographs of seven members of the Giants inside bags of their product. Larry Jansen, Bobby Thomson, Sal Maglie, Wes Westrum, Montia Kennedy, Dave Koslo and Bill Rigney also instituted action to recover $50,000 each from the companies on the ground that their pictures were used without their consent."

Which led to a Bob Lemke blog post: https://boblemke.blogspot.com/2012/0...nlicensed.html

Why only NY Giants players were involved in the suit was not revealed. Lemke also intimates 1952 B-R was sold with gum, which is interesting in context.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by egri

... The same thing happened in 1953, with six players missing from the set. After several years of speculation, they were revealed to be six benchwarmers, not stars, and that’s most likely who Topps missed on in 1952. It makes sense to me that if they were stars, Sy Berger would have gone all out to get them under contract, but for commons, he went with who he already had.

Good theory and not sure of the correct answer. Several well respected collectors who are very familiar with the set believe the 3 stars were double printed intentionally.

In a separate interview before his passing, Sy Berger mentioned that the double prints were due to players that were unsigned. As I work out how series were printed, the more I realize there are a lot of interconnected issues and some of the original assumptions on the printing and packaging of cards in each series has exceptions. More on this later.

[packs]

Musial doesn't get onto a Topps card until 1958, so I highly doubt he would be a serious contender for the 52 Set.

Same for Ted Williams. He doesn't appear on a Topps card until 1954.

I still think Joe D is a likely candidate. Yes, his career was over after the 1951 season but he also gave plenty of hints of his impending retirement and this would have been the only opportunity to feature him on a card.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Ted Williams would be an obvious choice, right?
Kiner was in Bowman but not Topps. Nellie Fox.

Is this a trivia question where you know the answer or just want some pontificating?

I do not know the answer. However, I ran across an old SABR interview from 2004 in which Sy indicates that in 1954 Topps was trying hard to get Williams in their set, but Topps was still in a legal battle with Bowman. Although the article pertains to 1954, it still shows the passion Topps had for getting him in their set. As 1 of the missing 3, Williams is a good guess I think. Here's an old link to why Musial and Williams were missing from certain sets:

https://net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=269235

And another link (worth the read) on how Ted Z found the old printing plates from 1954 Bowman with Williams on it

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=269275

[toppcat]

I came up with Art Schallock (Yankees), Joe Landrum (Dodgers) and Ray Noble (Giants) once as the possible last three cards, where my reasoning assumed no big names were available. More HERE if you are interested.

I looked at it again with some possible bigger names and came up with Ralph Kiner, Hal Newhouser and Johnny Logan as possibilities.

Again, more HERE if interested.

It's interesting that no White Sox players are in the highs.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by toppcat

I came up with Art Schallock (Yankees), Joe Landrum (Dodgers) and Ray Noble (Giants) once as the possible last three cards, where my reasoning assumed no big names were available. More HERE if you are interested.

I looked at it again with some possible bigger names and came up with Ralph Kiner, Hal Newhouser and Johnny Logan as possibilities.

Again, more HERE if interested.

It's interesting that no White Sox players are in the highs.

Just curious David - why not Ted Williams? Sy said in one of his interviews one of the missing 3 was one of his favorite players.

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

Just curious David - why not Ted Williams? Sy said in one of his interviews one of the missing 3 was one of his favorite players.

Sy said a lot of things over the years that were just PR puffery. They could have tried but missed out with Williams for any of several reasons but he seems like a guy they would try first in such a scenario. Mantle for instance, was signed on July 14th and the "second set" was out by some time in August but Ted was already back in the military for a couple of months by then.

Williams was with Berk-Ross, Star-Cal and Redman in 1952 it seems. I'm guessing his Berk-Ross deal could have been exclusive for trading cards with gum; they had DiMaggio too, who wasn't in any Bowman or Topps (1951) sets and I assume they paid up for some players of stature. It's ironic Joe D. was a spokesman for Bowman Color in 1953.

[Zach Wheat]

My feeling is it wasn't an exclusive contract with Berk Ross aka Hit Parade. Admittedly, I am not as versed in the particulars as you would be but Lemke wrote an article on the Berk Ross sets and he suggests the set was unlicensed and they were flirting with the NIL issue. Lemke details that the original lawsuit for NIL $$ actually originated from the Berk Ross set (compensation for 6 of the players was $20) and was filed by the same attorney (Shapiro) for the same reason as the more popular Haelean Lab (aka Bowman) V Topps Inc. lawsuit in 1953. So just a guess here...and its only a guess...but the contract with Williams wasn't exclusive since the compensation was minimal for the players mentioned in the lawsuit. To me, that suggests Hit Parade, et al. had a tight budget. The '51 set included 30 figures not related to baseball. This again suggests that Hit Parade et al. was on a tight budget.

My guess is Topps just couldn't get the contract with Williams signed as he was overseas by July of '52. And Berger has said a number of times Boston was his favorite team growing up, which leads me to think Williams might have been 1 of the 3.

Again just a wild guess.

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

My feeling is it wasn't an exclusive contract with Berk Ross aka Hit Parade. Admittedly, I am not as versed in the particulars as you would be but Lemke wrote an article on the Berk Ross sets and he suggests the set was unlicensed and they were flirting with the NIL issue. Lemke details that the original lawsuit for NIL $$ actually originated from the Berk Ross set (compensation for 6 of the players was $20) and was filed by the same attorney (Shapiro) for the same reason as the more popular Haelean Lab (aka Bowman) V Topps Inc. lawsuit in 1953. So just a guess here...and its only a guess...but the contract with Williams wasn't exclusive since the compensation was minimal for the players mentioned in the lawsuit. To me, that suggests Hit Parade, et al. had a tight budget. The '51 set included 30 figures not related to baseball. This again suggests that Hit Parade et al. was on a tight budget.

My guess is Topps just couldn't get the contract with Williams signed as he was overseas by July of '52. And Berger has said a number of times Boston was his favorite team growing up, which leads me to think Williams might have been 1 of the 3.

Again just a wild guess.

Could be. All you can really do at this point is make best guesses on this stuff.

Am I reading this right, Berk-Ross may have been partially licensed? I'll have to look at that Lemke piece again.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by toppcat

Could be. All you can really do at this point is make best guesses on this stuff.

Am I reading this right, Berk-Ross may have been partially licensed? I'll have to look at that Lemke piece again.

Agree. I believe it was at least a partially licensed set but the litigants versus Hit Parade et al (the firms named in the original lawsuit) had representation contracts with some but possibly not all of the players in the set. I believe that's why their initial "test run" Berk Ross set in 1951 included so many outside MLB. I believe their initial legal complaint was based upon their $20 compensation was not enough for the rights to their "NIL" and therefore the request for $50K in total. (I could not find the original suit yet - just Lemke's summary). I believe the players ended up losing the legal battle, but this set the stage for the later NIL legal proceedings with Haelean, Shapiro and Marvin Miller, etc.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

Agree. I believe it was at least a partially licensed set but the litigants versus Hit Parade et al (the firms named in the original lawsuit) had representation contracts with some but possibly not all of the players in the set. I believe that's why their initial "test run" Berk Ross set in 1951 included so many outside MLB. I believe their initial legal complaint was based upon their $20 compensation was not enough for the rights to their "NIL" and therefore the request for $50K in total. (I could not find the original suit yet - just Lemke's summary). I believe the players ended up losing the legal battle, but this set the stage for the later NIL legal proceedings with Haelean, Shapiro and Marvin Miller, etc.

I have a 1953 Bowman Mickey Vernon but it doesn't have any actual dollar amount listed. I also have a card contract of Mickey Owen for 1955 Topps. He had a choice of picking a Polaroid camera, a set of Spalding Golf clubs, RCA Hi-Fi Phonograph, or a check. Does not give amount check would be. I have owned a few others and the players made very little from the card companies based on the ones I have seen/owned.

[Republicaninmass]

I'd have to check back, but I believe the 1952 players were paid $250. Ralph branca once told a story how he was trying to persuade billy loes to sign for his REPRINT card (was never made since he wouldn't sign) and topps offered the same amount in 1982/83 as they had in 1952. Loes felt they should pay more as it was years later. Branca was trying to convince him the work was done and it would just be free money for signing the authorization. I can't remember where Branca told this.

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I have a 1953 Bowman Mickey Vernon but it doesn't have any actual dollar amount listed. I also have a card contract of Mickey Owen for 1955 Topps. He had a choice of picking a Polaroid camera, a set of Spalding Golf clubs, RCA Hi-Fi Phonograph, or a check. Does not give amount check would be. I have owned a few others and the players made very little from the card companies based on the ones I have seen/owned.

I can't tell if he filled out the first line but if he did, Mickey Owen may have taken too many hits to the noggin in his days behind the dish.

[Zach Wheat]

David wrote an excellent article on how Topps was rushing to fill the "2nd series" which we now refer to as the 6th series in this article:

https://www.thetoppsarchives.com/sea...pps%20Baseball

Great research and information David. Maybe Sy meant to add Wally Berger....Sy had previously referenced Wally as his favorite player. However, at the time Topps was filling out the 6th series subject list, they were scrambling. They had even added Paul Richards who last played with the Detroit Tigers in 1946, so it was not unusual to add an inactive player. Berger last played in 1940 with Philly.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Zach Wheat

David wrote an excellent article on how Topps was rushing to fill the "2nd series" which we now refer to as the 6th series in this article:

https://www.thetoppsarchives.com/sea...pps%20Baseball

Great research and information David. Maybe Sy meant to add Wally Berger....Sy had previously referenced Wally as his favorite player. However, at the time Topps was filling out the 6th series subject list, they were scrambling. They had even added Paul Richards who last played with the Detroit Tigers in 1946, so it was not unusual to add an inactive player. Berger last played in 1940 with Philly.

Richards is in the 1952 Topps set as the active manager of the White Sox, not an inactive player. Inactive players who were not active coaches were not included.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by G1911

Richards is in the 1952 Topps set as the active manager of the White Sox, not an inactive player. Inactive players who were not active coaches were not included.

Does aaa count?
Marv rickert aaa
Bob wellman aaa
Joe.page active 1950, then not until 54
Off the top of my head
Plenty of other players who were not in MLB

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Does aaa count?
Marv rickert aaa
Bob wellman aaa
Joe.page active 1950, then not until 54
Off the top of my head
Plenty of other players who were not in MLB

Yes there are rookies and active minor leaguers who were in roster competition, as in pretty much every Topps set until 2007. These players were not inactive,
or long retired guys. They were not including inactive players from the mid 40’s to fill out the set.

[ALR-bishop]

We once did a Topps Gallery thread here for 52 and 54 where everyone posted their cards cards from the entire sets. As I recall each set had some players who never appeared in an MLB game in the year of issue. But I am old and memory fades. Plus all were active in some way in professional baseball