I may have to sue Fanatics or Fedex-UPDATED 5/8/25 AT END OF THREAD

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Now that FedEx has admitted it cannot locate the package, and is not claiming it was delivered

Is that what they're claiming, though? Sounds like they claimed it was delivered ...

Originally Posted by russkcpa

After a few days of contacting managers, supervisors, etc I get a "proof of delivery" with a squiggly line as a signature and signed by R.Russ (see attachment)

[Peter_Spaeth]

"after exhausting all search options, we haven't been able to locate this shipment. Please contact your shipper"

Does that sound to you like a claim they delivered it?

[Goudey]

absolutely awful. I had one too many times where Fedex delivery guy just signed it himself, and just decided to send it to a drop location and pick it up

[calvindog]

I can’t bear to read through all this but I presume everyone knows that not only do FedEx drivers routinely sign your name for the packages themselves before dropping them either in your mailbox or by your front door, but sometimes they claim they tried to deliver the package and found no one home — when you’re sitting inside your house. I’ve had that happen and checked the video feed from my numerous outdoor cameras. They never attempted a delivery, just needed an excuse to take an extra day due.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

"after exhausting all search options, we haven't been able to locate this shipment. Please contact your shipper"

Does that sound to you like a claim they delivered it?

It sounds to me, in light of their previous claim that it had been delivered, that they may now be claiming only to have looked on their end for it and not found it.

If, on the other hand, they are now admitting both that 1) it wasn't actually delivered, and 2) that they can't find it; then I agree with you that it should be Fanatics' problem now.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

It sounds to me, in light of their previous claim that it had been delivered, that they may now be claiming only to have looked on their end for it and not found it.

Huh? Why would they tell him to contact the shipper if they were claiming it had been delivered? And if their position was it had been delivered, why would they be looking for it?

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Huh? Why would they tell him to contact the shipper if they were claiming it had been delivered? And if their position was it had been delivered, why would they be looking for it?

I don't know. In my experience, the people that would be in contact with OP from FedEx in such a situation often convey conflicting and inaccurate information. They may have been instructed (as such reps often are) to simply say whatever helps the company evade responsibility

[Peter_Spaeth]

Perhaps, but IMO it would be very hard for Fanatics to claim it was delivered given the admission by Fed Ex in writing they had looked for the package and couldn't find it, and in the first instance Fanatics is the party I'd be looking to for a full refund.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Fanatics sold him the card, and has an obligation to deliver it. The simplest recourse here for Russ is against Fanatics. Now that FedEx has admitted it cannot locate the package, and is not claiming it was delivered, this should be open and shut. It is then Fanatics' problem to deal with the company THEY paid to deliver the card.

That may solve Russ' problem, but won't contribute to ending the ongoing negligence at FedEx. You said earlier that class action lawsuits are difficult to file. But is criminal negligence not a felony (in U.S. terminology) in most States? Somebody needs to hold the ass of those responsible (including the policy makers) at FedEx to the fire or else they'll just crunch the numbers and adjust their pricing without making any changes to ensure safe delivery. Introducing criminal culpability into the equation is the only way to induce change at FedEx. And when $40,000 disappears, there are grounds for criminal prosecution (at least for criminal negligence).

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

That may solve Russ' problem, but won't contribute to ending the ongoing negligence at FedEx. You said earlier that class action lawsuits are difficult to file. But is criminal negligence not a felony (in U.S. terminology) in most States? Somebody needs to hold the ass of those responsible (including the policy makers) at FedEx to the fire or else they'll just crunch the numbers and adjust their pricing without making any changes to ensure safe delivery. Introducing criminal culpability into the equation is the only way to induce change at FedEx. And when $40,000 disappears, there are grounds for criminal prosecution (at least for criminal negligence).

I think Russ did say he filed a police report. That's the vehicle for pursuing a criminal action.

[russkcpa]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Fanatics sold him the card, and has an obligation to deliver it. The simplest recourse here for Russ is against Fanatics. Now that FedEx has admitted it cannot locate the package, and is not claiming it was delivered, this should be open and shut. It is then Fanatics' problem to deal with the company THEY paid to deliver the card.

You are correct.....shouldn't Fedex have been able to retrieve the package that the driver JUST HAD THE RECIPIENT SIGN ? I asked several times to tell me who they delivered the package to. They refused to tell me.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

You seem to want to let the driver off the hook. If the package was misdelivered, would it not have been the driver who did the misdelivering? And would he not have been at least present when a signature was obtained? The driver needs to do some explaining.

And since FedEx appears to be stonewalling, how else do you propose learning who delivered the package where?



Never assume malevolence when simple stupidity/negligence will serve as an explanation. But very quick steps must be taken when a $40,000 package disappears.

Don't want to let anyone off. You just never know what kind of psycho you are about to confront. As example I personally had this happen to me this summer with a USPS delivery person. I seen I had a package out for delivery. I noticed it was a substitute delivery person because your normal delivery person gets one day a week off besides Sunday. Anyway I noticed she just walked by my house without dropping off the package. So I went outside and asked if she had my package. She just looked at me and asked if my dog was in the house. I said yes and she just looked at me and said because I had a dog she would not deliver to my house. I again asked if I could just get my package. This psycho just grabbed her phone and called 911 saying I was attacking and harassing her. I never left my doorway and was never closer than 30 foot from her. The only thing that saved me from going to jail was she does this at least once a month and I live in a small town so all the cops know what is really going on. Things don't always go like you think they will.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Don't want to let anyone off. You just never know what kind of psycho you are about to confront. As example I personally had this happen to me this summer with a USPS delivery person. I seen I had a package out for delivery. I noticed it was a substitute delivery person because your normal delivery person gets one day a week off besides Sunday. Anyway I noticed she just walked by my house without dropping off the package. So I went outside and asked if she had my package. She just looked at me and asked if my dog was in the house. I said yes and she just looked at me and said because I had a dog she would not deliver to my house. I again asked if I could just get my package. This psycho just grabbed her phone and called 911 saying I was attacking and harassing her. I never left my doorway and was never closer than 30 foot from her. The only thing that saved me from going to jail was she does this at least once a month and I live in a small town so all the cops know what is really going on. Things don't always go like you think they will.

To add to that, I rarely see the same FedEx driver twice in my neighborhood, so I don't really see the point in delivering myself a package so I can "confront" them.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

To add to that, I rarely see the same FedEx driver twice in my neighborhood, so I don't really see the point in delivering myself a package so I can "confront" them.

My UPS driver is usually the same guy and has been for years. Fed Ex, revolving cast.

[BigfootIsReal]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

To add to that, I rarely see the same FedEx driver twice in my neighborhood, so I don't really see the point in delivering myself a package so I can "confront" them.

Jesus H......I'm not implying to "confront" the driver with a gun for Christ's sake. I tried what I suggested and it worked for ME. Fuk

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by BigfootIsReal

Jesus H......I'm not implying to "confront" the driver with a gun for Christ's sake. I tried what I suggested and it worked for ME. Fuk

Settle down big fella.

I thought Bigfoot only used P.O. Boxes. Guess I was wrong.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by russkcpa

Picture is from the Fanatics auction ad.

Interesting! There are currently 142 graded 7 or better in PSA's database. I wonder how many additional ones there are in SGC's database?

[Peter_Spaeth]

SGC does not grade Star BKB unless it's an extremely recent thing. There are still lots of BGS ones that have not been crossed. The problem with crossing is in most cases the centering is going to foreclose the 8 grade even if the card is a killer BGS 8 with mint corners. But I am sure they make exceptions for submitters on the Animal Farm plan.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

SGC does not grade Star BKB unless it's an extremely recent thing. There are still lots of BGS ones that have not been crossed. The problem with crossing is in most cases the centering is going to foreclose the 8 grade even if the card is a killer BGS 8 with mint corners. But I am sure they make exceptions for submitters on the Animal Farm plan.

I keep telling myself that about the BGS 8 (centering 7.5, corners 9.5, edges 9.5 surface 9) we sold a few years ago before PSA started grading them.

What's the old saying? A day late and a dollar short? We were a couple years early and about $30,000 short.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I keep telling myself that about the BGS 8 (centering 7.5, corners 9.5, edges 9.5 surface 9) we sold a few years ago before PSA started grading them.

What's the old saying? A day late and a dollar short? We were a couple years early and about $30,000 short.

Yeah, I bought my 8 which should be an 8.5 many moons ago. It would be a crime to put it in a 7 holder or even 7.5 IMO.

[notfast]

So what did the police say?

[samosa4u]

I heard that some of the Beckett graded examples are under-sized and PSA won't grade these. So, people just leave them in the Beckett holders.

I used to have a BGS 7.5 that I sold years ago (before PSA started grading them). Like hundreds of others before me, I too tried to get them to grade the Star cards and even spoke to Joe Orlando, but they didn't give a sh*t. It doesn't bother me that much though because my 7.5 had centering issues and corner wear, and would've probably graded a PSA 5.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

SGC does not grade Star BKB unless it's an extremely recent thing.

Originally Posted by samosa4u

I used to have a BGS 7.5 that I sold years ago (before PSA started grading them). Like hundreds of others before me, I too tried to get them to grade the Star cards and even spoke to Joe Orlando, but they didn't give a sh*t.

Why not? I thought they'd grade anything if there was a buck in it.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Why not? I thought they'd grade anything if there was a buck in it.

From what I've heard/read, PSA couldn't authenticate genuine Star cards and identify fakes.

That could be a myth; however, it was oft-cited as the reason.

[Peter_Spaeth]

As I understand, very early on PSA got burned grading a few bad Star Jordans. Orlando then vowed never again, and would not relent even when the most knowledgeable people about Star offered to train the graders -- as I believe was done for Beckett. These people tell me it's not all that difficult and that Orlando overreacted. Recently, Nat Turner finally changed direction for PSA.

[jchcollins]

Any updates here? I'm hoping against all odds that there was some miracle and Russ somehow got his card.

[e107collector]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

Any updates here? I'm hoping against all odds that there was some miracle and Russ somehow got his card.

Same here. I'm hoping for a good outcome for the OP.

[russkcpa]

The card has never shown up

I filed a police report which enabled me to have the PSA certificate cancelled

A "delivery dispute" has been filed by Fanatics with Fedex . I honestly don't know where this will end up. My rep at Fanatics believes "Fedex will be difficult" yet he has never seen a situation like this.

I will wait for an official response from Fedex before I take legal action. My rep understands that I will take legal action against Fanatics and Fedex.

I am preparing a summary containing all of the comments on this thread that describe virtually the same issue with the delivery of a Fedex package requiring direct signature confirmation. Please keep them coming. Thanks so much for your support.
Russ

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by russkcpa

...My rep at Fanatics believes "Fedex will be difficult" yet he has never seen a situation like this.

I find it hard to believe that this is the first time Fanatics / PWCC has had a package supposedly delivered by FedEx where it was "signed" for and the customer claims it never showed up.

[russkcpa]

Fedex will not disclose who the package was "delivered to" Their only evidence of delivery is the squiggly line signature by R.Russ. They will not disclose who the driver contacted when Fedex dispatched him/her back to the site to retrieve the package.

My office is on the 2nd floor of a very busy 3 floor office building in downtown Venice FL. The area in downtown Venice is loaded with tourists this time of year. Many tourists use the large parking lot adjacent to my building when they shop. Automatic sliding doors lead into a small lobby in the building. At the end of the lobby is another set of doors which opened into a Bank of America branch. This branch closed sometime after Covid. The lobby has a few arm chairs adjacent to the two elevators. Many long time visitors, snowbirds, workers and drivers go in and out of our building because they know there are men's and women's rest rooms there. All 2nd and 3rd floor suites are clearly marked in a large lobby directory. Unfortunately there are no security cameras inside the lobby or outside the building entrance.

I would suspect in discovery it will be possible to see a history of delivery confirmation forms with the signature of packages delivered by the driver. I suspect more squiggly lines will surface. I REALLY need Fanatics to be a bigger advocate for me with Fedex.

[pawpawdiv9]

I posted in the HA thread but this my experience with Heritage
It was shipped FedEx
When delivered they asked for my driver license and took photo of it and made me sign their iPad
This was a 2500 $ package to my house
The box did not say heritage auctions on it but the item was packaged well
Just my recent experience

[russkcpa]

Originally Posted by pawpawdiv9

I posted in the HA thread but this my experience with Heritage
It was shipped FedEx
When delivered they asked for my driver license and took photo of it and made me sign their iPad
This was a 2500 $ package to my house
The box did not say heritage auctions on it but the item was packaged well
Just my recent experience

Thank you. That is the correct procedure. If drivers only knew what they were delivering they would obtain that information.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by russkcpa

Fedex will not disclose who the package was "delivered to" Their only evidence of delivery is the squiggly line signature by R.Russ. They will not disclose who the driver contacted when Fedex dispatched him/her back to the site to retrieve the package.

My office is on the 2nd floor of a very busy 3 floor office building in downtown Venice FL. The area in downtown Venice is loaded with tourists this time of year. Many tourists use the large parking lot adjacent to my building when they shop. Automatic sliding doors lead into a small lobby in the building. At the end of the lobby is another set of doors which opened into a Bank of America branch. This branch closed sometime after Covid. The lobby has a few arm chairs adjacent to the two elevators. Many long time visitors, snowbirds, workers and drivers go in and out of our building because they know there are men's and women's rest rooms there. All 2nd and 3rd floor suites are clearly marked in a large lobby directory. Unfortunately there are no security cameras inside the lobby or outside the building entrance.

I would suspect in discovery it will be possible to see a history of delivery confirmation forms with the signature of packages delivered by the driver. I suspect more squiggly lines will surface. I REALLY need Fanatics to be a bigger advocate for me with Fedex.

Living in Fort Myers, and former volunteer at the Seaboard railway depot museum in Venice, I'm quite familiar with where you are. In fact, I was just up there a few days ago. Yes, right now is "in season" and snowbirds are everywhere.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by russkcpa

The card has never shown up

I filed a police report which enabled me to have the PSA certificate cancelled

A "delivery dispute" has been filed by Fanatics with Fedex . I honestly don't know where this will end up. My rep at Fanatics believes "Fedex will be difficult" yet he has never seen a situation like this.

I will wait for an official response from Fedex before I take legal action. My rep understands that I will take legal action against Fanatics and Fedex.

I am preparing a summary containing all of the comments on this thread that describe virtually the same issue with the delivery of a Fedex package requiring direct signature confirmation. Please keep them coming. Thanks so much for your support.
Russ

Your Fanatics rep does not seem to understand Fanatics has an unconditional contractual duty to deliver the card to you that has nothing to do with Fed Ex or whether Fed Ex is being difficult or the outcome of a "delivery dispute." If the carrier they chose effed up, that is not your problem legally. Fanatics is a huge business, this claim is a pittance to them. I suggest contacting their chief legal officer: https://www.fanaticsinc.com/gregg-winiarski and/or the CEO of Fanatics Collectibles: https://www.fanaticsinc.com/mike-mahan-1

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by russkcpa

I am preparing a summary containing all of the comments on this thread that describe virtually the same issue with the delivery of a Fedex package requiring direct signature confirmation. Please keep them coming.

Youtube is absolutely chock full of videos detailing carelessness/sloppiness of FedEx drivers. Copy a bunch of those for the judge/jury.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by pawpawdiv9

I posted in the HA thread but this my experience with Heritage
It was shipped FedEx
When delivered they asked for my driver license and took photo of it and made me sign their iPad
This was a 2500 $ package to my house
The box did not say heritage auctions on it but the item was packaged well
Just my recent experience

I wonder if it is possible Fanatics clicked the box "Adult Signature Required", rather then "Direct Signature Required" in order to save money on shipping?

Makes a difference when the delivery is to a busy office building.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I wonder if it is possible Fanatics clicked the box "Adult Signature Required", rather then "Direct Signature Required" in order to save money on shipping?

Well such a move would certainly doom Fanatics in both court and with their insurance company.

[Peter_Spaeth]

BTW, Fanatics' Terms of Use include a broad arbitration clause.

https://help.fanaticscollect.com/hc/...5JJVNQ71603KEF

[conor912]

Originally Posted by russkcpa

If drivers only knew what they were delivering they would obtain that information.

I've always wondered about that. I totally get the validity of that argument, but I also don't feel comfortable with a delivery guy knowing A) my package is worth his yearly salary, and B) the name, address, and face of a house that has these types of valuable items in it. It's a double edged sword, for sure.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by russkcpa

Thank you. That is the correct procedure. If drivers only knew what they were delivering they would obtain that information.

Originally Posted by conor912

I've always wondered about that. I totally get the validity of that argument, but I also don't feel comfortable with a delivery guy knowing A) my package is worth his yearly salary, and B) the name, address, and face of a house that has these types of valuable items in it. It's a double edged sword, for sure.

There's no reason a driver needs to know what they're delivering or the value of it. If the shipper paid for a signature on delivery, that's all the driver needs to know, and the driver should get it whether he knows what's in the box is worth $40 or $40K.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by jayshum

There's no reason a driver needs to know what they're delivering or the value of it. If the shipper paid for a signature on delivery, that's all the driver needs to know, and the driver should get it whether he knows what's in the box is worth $40 or $40K.

Sure, but as I notated earlier in this thread, there's an entirely different protocol the shipping company takes, and an entirely different set of consequences for those involved, when the box is declared for 40K, rather then for $40.00.

There's a cost/benefit vs. risk analysis involved.

[sb1]

Assuming that Fanatics used a private insurance carrier(as FedEX will not insure collectibles), Fanatics would not have declared a value, just chose a delivery method which was signature required, could have been ground or air, next day, etc. depending on the policy stipulations Thus there would have been no value assigned to the package for the driver to have any idea what it might contain.

There are two likely scenarios to the loss here, either the driver swiped the package(unlikely) or the driver signed for it and left it lay somewhere in the building it was addressed to(more likely) and someone else picked it up and walked off with it.

One has to believe that Fed/Ex knows who the driver was, what time he "delivered" the package, and possibly even an exact location due to real-time tracking of the driver.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Sure, but as I notated earlier in this thread, there's an entirely different protocol the shipping company takes, and an entirely different set of consequences for those involved, when the box is declared for 40K, rather then for $40.00.

There's a cost/benefit vs. risk analysis involved.

That may be true, but unfortunately, most people shipping something probably don't know that and figure there's a better chance of something disappearing if they say it's worth $40K.

[Yoda]

I agree with Peter here. Russ should contact Fanatics for compensation, which you have already done. But top management should be aware of this, and if there here have been similar instances, change carriers, while remunerating you for your loss. Fanatics can then subrogate for their loss, as Fed Ex clearly has negligence here, and be reimbursed. They might even have some kind of bailees' policy which would cover your item when shipped. I would not let this sit with a lower level employee.
IMO the driver stole the item and provided a bogus delivered-signature card. If I am right, you should bring in the police.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Your Fanatics rep does not seem to understand Fanatics has an unconditional contractual duty to deliver the card to you that has nothing to do with Fed Ex or whether Fed Ex is being difficult or the outcome of a "delivery dispute." If the carrier they chose effed up, that is not your problem legally. Fanatics is a huge business, this claim is a pittance to them. I suggest contacting their chief legal officer: https://www.fanaticsinc.com/gregg-winiarski and/or the CEO of Fanatics Collectibles: https://www.fanaticsinc.com/mike-mahan-1

I would wager that Fanatics' legal department was made aware of this situation fairly early, and that the rep with whom OP is dealing is simply the current face of the company who is not acting on his own.

[Yoda]

Russ should contact his rep and demand that this whole sad episode be brought to the attention of senior management. If a lost/stolen item is worth 40k, then they should be aware of it. The longer it sits unresolved, the less the chance for recovery.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

I would wager that Fanatics' legal department was made aware of this situation fairly early, and that the rep with whom OP is dealing is simply the current face of the company who is not acting on his own.

I would not assume that. The rep could have just asked his supervisor who told him to pressure Fed Ex.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I would not assume that. The rep could have just asked his supervisor who told him to pressure Fed Ex.

Possibly, but I would be surprised. We may never know but I would not want lower level company representatives making statements or taking actions without my knowledge, potentially binding the company to a position in subsequent legal proceedings that I would not have counseled. But maybe that's just me, and Fanatics' protocols have different thresholds before legal gets involved.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Possibly, but I would be surprised. We may never know but I would not want lower level company representatives making statements or taking actions without my knowledge, potentially binding the company to a position in subsequent legal proceedings that I would not have counseled. But maybe that's just me, and Fanatics' protocols have different thresholds before legal gets involved.

It's very early. They may ask sales level people to try to work things out before escalating them to management and that's what the rep is trying to do. This is a very substantial company, this ain't Brent and Betsy. There is no reason to believe a 40K delivery dispute has already reached anyone in authority.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's very early. They may ask sales level people to try to work things out before escalating them to management and that's what the rep is trying to do. This is a very substantial company. There is no reason to believe a 40K delivery dispute has already reached anyone in authority.

You could be right. Then again, once made aware that their customer has filed a police report and that law enforcement at some point may be making inquiries, I would think that legal is at least notified and kept in the loop.