Massive theft at Dallas card show, Nearly 2 Million Dollars worth of cards stolen

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Flintboy

A little off topic but I always chuckle at PSA. PSA is the supposed top authority on altered cards yet they alter your submissions by applying ink to your card.

The claim is false. It is not true. They do not put secret invisible ink on cards they slab, and nobody will produce any evidence that they do. One need not use falsehoods to hit PSA, they do plenty of factually true bad things.

[SteveWhite]

It is now on the Athletic Website and on the CBS Sports webpage.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Flintboy

A little off topic but I always chuckle at PSA. PSA is the supposed top authority on altered cards yet they alter your submissions by applying ink to your card.

I don't think this is a thing with PSA and cards.

Just other memorabilia.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by sflayank

I have a question? What was their plan b?
They waited all day..how did they know whoever took the cards out of the display cases would put the cards in the carrying case and leave it on the floor?..if that person simply took the case with him.to the parking lot or just to his workers waiting for them to finish packing etc..what was the plan b?

Walk away and try again at the next show?

[packs]

Yeah. Theft is usually a crime of opportunity. No opportunity, no theft. The Plan B stuff is usually reserved for higher concept or more sensitive thefts than baseball cards.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by packs

Yeah. Theft is usually a crime of opportunity. No opportunity, no theft. The Plan B stuff is usually reserved for higher concept or more sensitive thefts than baseball cards.

True, but I would characterize this theft as being a $2,000,000 heist, not "just baseball cards." I still agree, no plan B other than walk away.

However, when the cards themselves, with various minor defects and imperfections, are almost as identifiable as fingerprints, they won't get anything close to full retail.

[CobbSpikedMe]

Ok, I've read the thread and I've seen several posts about having some sort of private security hired to watch a dealer's inventory at all times. This was the first thing I thought of when I heard about the theft initially. Why would you go to a show with $2M worth of cards (in just ONE case) let alone all the other inventory you have at your table and not spend the money to have people behind your table whose sole purpose for being there is to watch your stuff?!

Sure, it would add to your show overhead, but the peace of mind would be worth it. And with that inventory, you could make one sale and pay for the security for the whole weekend from it.

I know Ash is a great guy and dealer and hope all works out for him, but I find myself torn between feeling bad about this and feeling upset that he didn't have this type of security at his table. Am I alone here or do any of you guys find yourselves in the same boat as me?

ETA: Of course, I feel bad about it, but I'm still upset security wasn't there.

.

[campyfan39]

Really hope they are caught and expect they will be.

Random question for dealers.... How can some guy stack chairs "for over an hour" and nobody from the building being rented or officials ask him what he is doing or who he is?

[rand1com]

Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe

Ok, I've read the thread and I've seen several posts about having some sort of private security hired to watch a dealer's inventory at all times. This was the first thing I thought of when I heard about the theft initially. Why would you go to a show with $2M worth of cards (in just ONE case) let alone all the other inventory you have at your table and not spend the money to have people behind your table whose sole purpose for being there is to watch your stuff?!

Sure, it would add to your show overhead, but the peace of mind would be worth it. And with that inventory, you could make one sale and pay for the security for the whole weekend from it.

I know Ash is a great guy and dealer and hope all works out for him, but I find myself torn between feeling bad about this and feeling upset that he didn't have this type of security at his table. Am I alone here or do any of you guys find yourselves in the same boat as me?

ETA: Of course, I feel bad about it, but I'm still upset security wasn't there.

.

He had done hundreds of shows over the years without an issue until this particular one as far as I know.

He set up beside me in Boston last year at the Shriner's show and had one young helper with him but it was not his son but a close family friend.

Ashish walked the show a lot but the young man did a great job of protecting his inventory.

His son was doing a Dallas show the same weekend so he obviously did not have all of his inventory in Boston but one showcase had $250K based on his stickers and he had 12 showcases with all graded cards.

Yes, probably if he had more security this would not have happened but this was not his first rodeo.

It is what it is. He is a nice guy who has been robbed. That should be our focus.

Any comments detrimental to him are a shame IMO. Mistakes and oversights happen no matter the care taken.

I hope his inventory is found intact and returned to him and he can turn the corner with his business.

I'm sure tighter safeguards will be in place at future shows.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Ok, this won't go over well with most, but so it goes. Of course, everyone here feels horribly for Ashish, hates the thieves, and wants nothing more than that they be caught and the cards recovered. That all goes without saying.

But nobody has died here, this isn't a funeral, I don't see why people have to tiptoe delicately and avoid talking about how this happened. It's human nature to ask questions when stuff happens. And it seems to me most of the comments are fair. I'm not great with video but as far as I can tell a case with a million dollars or more of cards was just sitting down at the far end of a booth with multiple tables, no one was anywhere close to it even before the distractor guys came along. Obviously hindsight is 20 20, but I think the comments have been fair and not malicious or disrespectful in any way.

[Leon]

No, no one died. It could have been worse (in the big picture).

It happened because trained, professional thieves exploited a human mistake. That is it. Now, the focus should be on the thiefs. But that is just my opinion and this is a chatboard.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Ok, this won't go over well with most, but so it goes. Of course, everyone here feels horribly for Ashish, hates the thieves, and wants nothing more than that they be caught and the cards recovered. That all goes without saying.

But nobody has died here, this isn't a funeral, I don't see why people have to tiptoe delicately and avoid talking about how this happened. It's human nature to ask questions when stuff happens. And it seems to me most of the comments are fair. I'm not great with video but as far as I can tell a case with a million dollars or more of cards was just sitting down at the far end of a booth with multiple tables, no one was anywhere close to it even before the distractor guys came along. Obviously hindsight is 20 20, but I think the comments have been fair and not malicious or disrespectful in any way.

[Peter_Spaeth]

It's not mutually exclusive. One can focus on the thieves (whatever that means?) and still discuss how this happened and can be prevented.

[CobbSpikedMe]

Originally Posted by rand1com

He had done hundreds of shows over the years without an issue until this particular one as far as I know.

He set up beside me in Boston last year at the Shriner's show and had one young helper with him but it was not his son but a close family friend.

Ashish walked the show a lot but the young man did a great job of protecting his inventory.

His son was doing a Dallas show the same weekend so he obviously did not have all of his inventory in Boston but one showcase had $250K based on his stickers and he had 12 showcases with all graded cards.

Yes, probably if he had more security this would not have happened but this was not his first rodeo.

It is what it is. He is a nice guy who has been robbed. That should be our focus.

Any comments detrimental to him are a shame IMO. Mistakes and oversights happen no matter the care taken.

I hope his inventory is found intact and returned to him and he can turn the corner with his business.

I'm sure tighter safeguards will be in place at future shows.

Didn't think I said anything detrimental to Ash in my post tbh. I even said he was a good guy and dealer and that I did feel bad for him. I think it's great he's never had this problem at all the other shows he's done in the past, but he was lucky it didn't happen sooner with no security around. I mean, $2M in one case? Not to mention all the other inventory at the table. I do feel bad for him and hope these guys rot in hell for this, but my point is simple, pay for the security when you have that much money at you're table.



.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's not mutually exclusive. One can focus on the thieves (whatever that means?) and still discuss how this happened and can be prevented.

The idea that a crime should be discussed but without any discussion of how it happened or why or any practical lessons that can be learned is a little amusing. These things are normal matters of discussion for a crime in any other hobby or place. The list of things collectors don’t want anyone to discuss is just too long to keep up with.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's not mutually exclusive. One can focus on the thieves (whatever that means?) and still discuss how this happened and can be prevented.

I guess focus on the thieves means to give more attention to them than the reason it happened. Both inevitably get discussed, nothing wrong with that. But it was a human mistake, that is how it happened. Someone should have been with the cards all of the time. It's not rocket science.
.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by G1911

The idea that a crime should be discussed but without any discussion of how it happened or why or any practical lessons that can be learned is a little amusing. These things are normal matters of discussion for a crime in any other hobby or place. The list of things collectors don’t want anyone to discuss is just too long to keep up with.

Seems everything gets discussed. You should be fine.
.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

I guess focus on the thieves means to give more attention to them than the reason it happened. Both inevitably get discussed, nothing wrong with that. But it was a human mistake, that is how it happened. Someone should have been with the cards all of the time. It's not rocket science.
.

Right, but people who say that are getting lambasted for being out of line and somehow insensitive.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Leon

Seems everything gets discussed. You should be fine.
.

Hence why I said "don't want to be discussed" instead of "censor from discussion".

[tjisonline]

Dr Jim and Rich talking about the robbery

https://youtu.be/s8H682uThMs?si=BH41uHZ8gE-g9W07

[ALBB]

every time I watch that vid, and see that dude flying down the isle and getting incredibly animated with the worker to distract him, I wonder what was he talking nonsense BS about ??

like " look at my phone, the next show I can get you a table with chrome legs " and " see the glare you get when you set up at this spot, you wanna be here next time " , all the while peeking at his buddy walking away with the case

just crazy

[gregndodgers]

Here's pics of thief with the large watch.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's not mutually exclusive. One can focus on the thieves (whatever that means?) and still discuss how this happened and can be prevented.

Agree...

A discussion of how the theft could better have been prevented potentially helps future crimes from ever happening. If we don't learn from our actions (and evolve accordingly), we are prone to recurring disasters. I fail to see how such a discussion is a bad thing.

We all want these criminals caught and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. But doesn't it also make sense to do whatever we can to disarm them moving forward?

[gregndodgers]

Pics of the thief who grabbed the cards. Many of the thieves had tattoos.

[samosa4u]

A lot of people are also assuming that these guys are "Americans" and that people will "recognize" them. They could be illegal aliens. And maybe they are not even in America now!

As for finding those cards, man, that's gonna' be tough. Sure, a few are rare, like that WWG DiMaggio, Caramel Ruth, Sporting News Jacksons, etc. However, all the others are not. For example, up here in Canada, there are hundreds of people who own that 52T Mantle. I know that for a fact. They're always turning up here and there. Now, imagine how many there are in the US? And as for the other cards, there are probably thousands of them in the US. These guys could sit on them for about a year and then just slowly put them back into the marketplace. I know they're graded, but they can get cracked out and the raw cards can get worked on a little bit in order to prevent anyone from matching them with older scans. And even if they don't work on them, I doubt that a year from now anyone is gonna' be doing checks on their newly-purchased cards. People are just gonna' be so absorbed in their own problems and will totally forget about all this.

[CJinPA]

Keep distributing the photos of the actual thieves!! Horrible humans - having no respect for how hard it was for this dealer to accumulate those items over many years....

Here's a photo of some our board posters (at least the one that keeps flashing in my head when some interact with each other)

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by gregndodgers

Pics of the thief who grabbed the cards. Many of the thieves had tattoos.

Seems to me that 75% of men under age 50 have prominent tattoos. But maybe I'm just hanging out on the Jersey Shore too much.

But it is interesting. . . .if you were a professional operator like everyone is suggesting this team was, why would you expose something distinctive like a large tattoo on your arm.

Of course. . . it could be a fake tattoo. And that could be fake facial hair.

[gregndodgers]

The International angle is interesting. These cards may very well be out of the country at this moment.

"Turner, who was a part of a group that purchased Collectors, the parent company of PSA, in early 2021, believes collectors overseas are holding massive cards and aren’t saying anything. 'I guarantee it,' Turner said. 'We have PSA China quietly open in Shanghai. We’re accepting submissions. We have a 100-person Shanghai office now, mainly for coin grading...I bet you that — and this is just gut feel — that half of the ungraded cards in our market are overseas,' Craig said. 'And a lot of it’s high end.'"

https://sportscollectorsdigest.com/n...al-card-market

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by gregndodgers

The International angle is interesting. These cards may very well be out of the country at this moment.

"Turner, who was a part of a group that purchased Collectors, the parent company of PSA, in early 2021, believes collectors overseas are holding massive cards and aren’t saying anything. 'I guarantee it,' Turner said. 'We have PSA China quietly open in Shanghai. We’re accepting submissions. We have a 100-person Shanghai office now, mainly for coin grading.'”

https://sportscollectorsdigest.com/n...al-card-market

As I said before, they could have fled to (back to?) Mexico. I mean hopefully they're just hacks and they'll be nabbed soon, but who knows.

[refz]

I’m not sure if this was asked yet or does anyone who knows this dealer, what is next for him & his sake ? Will he carry on, pack it in hoping to get the cards back eventually?

[packs]

I feel like views on the theft are heavily influenced by movies. For example, if I stole these cards it would be easy for me to regrade them one at a time and sell them one at a time over a pretty long period of time. The last thing I would do is attempt to sell anything now and it would be an even worse idea to try to sell everything at the same time.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by packs

I feel like views on the theft are heavily influenced by movies. For example, if I stole these cards it would be easy for me to regrade them one at a time and sell them one at a time over a pretty long period of time. The last thing I would do is attempt to sell anything now and it would be an even worse idea to try to sell everything at the same time.

You remember what happened in Goodfellas. Some of these guys will start buying their girlfriends caddys and fur coats.

[Jewish-collector]

Unfortunately, it would be trivial for them to break them out of the slabs and resubmit a few at a time to any grading company and no one would even suspect anything unusual.

[packs]

Well, that is usually a downfall but in this case stealing baseball cards is a pretty inconspicuous crime. It's not like stealing a car, for example. And unlike cash, if a casual observer at your house catches sight of them, it's more likely than not that it wouldn't even register with the person.

People suggested they might leave the country with them. But I really don't see why you would. I wouldn't. Nobody even knows I have cards unless I tell them. And if you came to my house, you'd never see them.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by packs

I feel like views on the theft are heavily influenced by movies.

This. Fake tattoos and beards? Why not the face mask generator from Mission Impossible?

[packs]

And the Plan B stuff.

The only real way to recover the cards is for someone to know who took them and for that person to still have them. Otherwise it will be years of auction watching and trying to cover every conceivable avenue of sale which I think will both get exhausting and turn up little in the end.

I do hope the cards are recovered and the person who lost them is made whole. I just don't think there will be any theatrics involved.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

Well, that is usually a downfall but in this case stealing baseball cards is a pretty inconspicuous crime. It's not like stealing a car, for example. And unlike cash, if a casual observer at your house catches sight of them, it's more likely than not that it wouldn't even register with the person.

People suggested they might leave the country with them. But I really don't see why you would. I wouldn't. Nobody even knows I have cards unless I tell them. And if you came to my house, you'd never see them.

Their faces are all over the internet. That's the problem for them, not the cards so much. If you were planning this crime and knew you would likely be on surveillance video, how would you plan to avoid the domestic authorities?

[gregndodgers]

Are these cards going to the "black market" or somewhere less sophisticated?

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...show-security/

“If the group involved in the theft is well organized, they will offer the items for sale on the black market,” Hayes noted. “If they are amateurs who believed they saw an opportunity to make a quick score off the theft, the items stand a good chance of being recovered in the future as these thieves almost always offer items for sale to pawn shops or other venues that will report the activity to law enforcement.”

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by gregndodgers

Are these cards going to the "black market" or somewhere less sophisticated?

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...show-security/

“If the group involved in the theft is well organized, they will offer the items for sale on the black market,” Hayes noted. “If they are amateurs who believed they saw an opportunity to make a quick score off the theft, the items stand a good chance of being recovered in the future as these thieves almost always offer items for sale to pawn shops or other venues that will report the activity to law enforcement.”

Exponentially more? Why? Not buying this. "Navigating auction protocols." Yeah that's so hard.

“So long as they can be assured the items are of legitimate provenance, they are unconcerned about the legality of the acquisition,” Hayes stated. “In fact, these collectors are often willing to pay exponentially more to acquire these items rather than navigating legal sales and auction protocols.

[packs]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Their faces are all over the internet. That's the problem for them, not the cards so much. If you were planning this crime and knew you would likely be on surveillance video, how would you plan to avoid the domestic authorities?

I would first reason that the domestic authorities probably wouldn't look very hard and the person who actually stole the case is wearing generic featureless accessories like glasses and a hat. He's not distinct in any way that I can tell other than having a tattoo of something. He's got a little facial hair. He looks like a generic "dude" to me, which is of course probably his ideal observation.

If he were 6'9 and had red hair with nothing covering any of their features, then maybe I'd consider he might not be concerned with his appearance because he doesn't plan to stick around.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

I would first reason that the domestic authorities probably wouldn't look very hard and the person who actually stole the case is wearing generic featureless accessories like glasses and a hat. He's not distinct in any way that I can tell other than having a tattoo of something. He's got a little facial hair. He looks like a generic "dude" to me, which is of course probably his ideal observation.

If he were 6'9 and had red hair with nothing covering any of their features, then maybe I'd consider he might not be concerned with his appearance because he doesn't plan to stick around.

If my plan is to steal the inventory of a major dealer, I would assume the authorities are going to put in a very solid effort to find me.

[packs]

I don't doubt all of us feel the same way. But I do wonder if that's because we have an emotional investment and it's very important to us. There's a lot of crime out there though. It's hard to know what's important to someone else.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Exponentially more? Why? Not buying this. "Navigating auction protocols." Yeah that's so hard.

“So long as they can be assured the items are of legitimate provenance, they are unconcerned about the legality of the acquisition,” Hayes stated. “In fact, these collectors are often willing to pay exponentially more to acquire these items rather than navigating legal sales and auction protocols.

What does legitimate provenance mean? I would think it means not stolen but I guess not since the next part says unconcerned about the legality. I also find it hard to believe that people would be willing to pay more for stolen cards if they could get something equivalent for less in an auction. Makes no sense.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't doubt all of us feel the same way. But I do wonder if that's because we have an emotional investment and it's very important to us. There's a lot of crime out there though. It's hard to know what's important to someone else.

I tend to think whatever was stolen, if you're talking a million or more in value, law enforcement would take it pretty seriously.

[packs]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I tend to think whatever was stolen, if you're talking a million or more in value, law enforcement would take it pretty seriously.

I admit to being a natural skeptic but if you're a cop and a guy is telling you he's had two million dollars in baseball cards stolen, I don't know what the reaction is.

I know how I would react because I like cards. But if you replaced two million dollars worth of baseball cards with two million dollars worth of my beer can collection, you may feel a different sense of urgency.

That's what I was getting at. I don't know how important it is to anyone who is in a position to help. I would hope it's as important to them as it is to the hobby but I honestly don't know.

[jayshum]

It appears that the theft of Memory Lane cards was taken pretty seriously. I'm not sure why this theft would be different.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by jayshum

It appears that the theft of Memory Lane cards was taken pretty seriously. I'm not sure why this theft would be different.

Well for one, I'm not sure the seriousness but there was a limited amount of people who had access to the fed ex package..kind narrowed it down to what 10 people? I don't think there are even 25 employees at the best Western. Sheer luck aka stupidity, it was one of them. They knew who was working that day and time. Doesn't take Monk to solve that one.

It's a jungle out there

[JollyElm]

Every time I check this thread when new posts appear, (like everyone else, I assume) the only thing I am ever hoping to (finally) see is, "THE F*CKERS HAVE BEEN CAUGHT!!!"

Everything else is just noise (no offense to anyone).

And yes, I do realize that since this very post refreshes the thread again, it also rightfully gets thrown onto the heaped up pile of 'noise,' too.

[jingram058]

AMEN! And they will be!

[Beercan collector]

Originally Posted by packs

I admit to being a natural skeptic but if you're a cop and a guy is telling you he's had two million dollars in baseball cards stolen, I don't know what the reaction is.

I know how I would react because I like cards. But if you replaced two million dollars worth of baseball cards with two million dollars worth of my beer can collection, you may feel a different sense of urgency.

That's what I was getting at. I don't know how important it is to anyone who is in a position to help. I would hope it's as important to them as it is to the hobby but I honestly don't know.

C’mon now 😐

[Kutcher55]

Since we are entering the phase of rampant speculation I would put in my two cents and say these guys are Mexican cartel. I would have thought authorities would have them by now and with facial recognition technology they should know who this guy is.

Then again it took them 5 days to catch the Tsarnsev bros in a situation with a few parallels although one non-parallel is that the bombing was a much bigger crime and the manhunt resources were significantly bigger. That said we are ten years down the road of technology and I still feel like this will break by the weekend.