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Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Postwar Sportscard Forums > Watercooler Talk- ALL sports talk

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  #1  
Old 07-04-2024, 08:06 PM
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These guys didn't just have bad luck seasons: they had bad luck careers.

In a seven-year-career between 1896 and 1904, Ned Garvine had a 124 ERA+ but a win-loss of 58-97. Highlights were 1900 (10-18, 2.41 ERA, 149 ERA+ for the Cubs), 1901 (8-20, 3.39 ERA, 103 ERA+ for the Milwaukee Brewers), and 1904 (5-16, 1.72 ERA, 159 ERA+ for the Dodgers and Highlanders.)

Eddie Smith, who pitched for the White Sox, Phillies, and Red Sox between 1936 and 1947, had only one winning record in his 10 years in the majors and finished with a career win-loss of 73-113 despite a career ERA+ was 108.

Scott Perry, who pitched for the Athletics in their 1920-era doldrums, was 4-17 with a 95 ERA+ in 1919 and and 11-25 with a 111 ERA+ in 1920. He jumped the Athletics in mid-1921 to pitch semi-pro ball, and who can blame him?

Ned Garver was of course the top pitcher on some bad Browns teams in the early 50s; in 1950 he was 13-18 but led the league with an ERA+ of 146. For his career he had a 129-157 record but a 113 ERA+.

For his career Jose DeLeon had an approximately average 102 ERA+ but a record of 86-119.

Last edited by John1941; 07-04-2024 at 08:19 PM.
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  #2  
Old 07-04-2024, 09:13 PM
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Irv Young won 20 games for the 1905 Boston Beaneaters.

But lost 21...
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  #3  
Old 07-05-2024, 09:41 AM
G1911 G1911 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John1941 View Post
These guys didn't just have bad luck seasons: they had bad luck careers.

In a seven-year-career between 1896 and 1904, Ned Garvine had a 124 ERA+ but a win-loss of 58-97. Highlights were 1900 (10-18, 2.41 ERA, 149 ERA+ for the Cubs), 1901 (8-20, 3.39 ERA, 103 ERA+ for the Milwaukee Brewers), and 1904 (5-16, 1.72 ERA, 159 ERA+ for the Dodgers and Highlanders.)

Eddie Smith, who pitched for the White Sox, Phillies, and Red Sox between 1936 and 1947, had only one winning record in his 10 years in the majors and finished with a career win-loss of 73-113 despite a career ERA+ was 108.

Scott Perry, who pitched for the Athletics in their 1920-era doldrums, was 4-17 with a 95 ERA+ in 1919 and and 11-25 with a 111 ERA+ in 1920. He jumped the Athletics in mid-1921 to pitch semi-pro ball, and who can blame him?

Ned Garver was of course the top pitcher on some bad Browns teams in the early 50s; in 1950 he was 13-18 but led the league with an ERA+ of 146. For his career he had a 129-157 record but a 113 ERA+.

For his career Jose DeLeon had an approximately average 102 ERA+ but a record of 86-119.
Another bad luck full career that springs to mind is Bob Friend. Friend was a fine pitcher who made 4 all-star games with a 107 career ERA+, but a losing record of 197-230, weighed down by some poor Pirates teams and some just bad luck.
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Old 07-05-2024, 02:26 PM
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In 1933 Paul Derringer began the season going 0-2 for the Cardinals. They then traded him to the Reds where he went 7-25 the rest of the season for a 58 win team. He actually finished tied for second in wins on the team with 10 being the most, and his ERA was a very respectable 3.30 with him competing 17 games and throwing 2 shut outs and finishing with an ERA+ still above league average at 103.

Derringer’s 27 losses are still the most since the dead ball era and despite his dubious season, he won 20 games 4 times and finished with 223 wins.
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  #5  
Old 07-06-2024, 06:41 PM
ClementeFanOh ClementeFanOh is offline
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Default Bad luck

I knew my guy Mario Soto deserved to be in this chat. 1982 saw Soto lead the
league in WHIP, amass 274 Ks, and a 2.7ish ERA. He was 14-13 on a Reds
team I could have started for (before the literalists crawl out of their holes,
I'm using hyperbole). This is why it is a slippery slope to devalue pitchers like
Nolan Ryan, who accomplished incredible feats while basically playing against
the other team AND his own

Trent King
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Old 07-06-2024, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClementeFanOh View Post
I knew my guy Mario Soto deserved to be in this chat. 1982 saw Soto lead the
league in WHIP, amass 274 Ks, and a 2.7ish ERA. He was 14-13 on a Reds
team I could have started for (before the literalists crawl out of their holes,
I'm using hyperbole). This is why it is a slippery slope to devalue pitchers like
Nolan Ryan, who accomplished incredible feats while basically playing against
the other team AND his own

Trent King
Thank You - Being a pitcher on a crappy team is the definition of bad luck

Last edited by Beercan collector; 07-06-2024 at 06:45 PM. Reason: Not Picture
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Old 07-06-2024, 11:31 PM
G1911 G1911 is offline
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In 1880 with the Cincinnati Stars Will White posted a 114 ERA+, and won 18 games. Unfortunately he lost 42 because the Stars were not stars, going 21-59 as a club. A 24 game deficit is quite a lot for an excellent hurler.
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Old 07-07-2024, 06:21 AM
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frankbmd frankbmd is offline
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ERA and ERA+ in the nineteenth century and early twentieth century are poor statistics due to the fact that often 50% or more of the runs were unearned. Despite the low ERAs characteristic of the deadball era, runs per game were not reduced nearly as much. If, in the current game, players used century old gloves, ERAs would generally go down. The number of catchers would also go down trying to catch 100 mph heat with ancient equipment. OUCH!!!
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