The Future of Type I Photos

[lumberjack]

This is in regard to something Rhys said. Back in the 1970s, I picked up a handful of Lewis Hine and FSA contact prints. Hine and the FSA guys were the apex of documentary photographers in the years before WW II. This stuff was considered art photography by then.

Today, you can find at least three baseball photographs in the average RMY auction (I think my guess is modestly low), that sell for more than you can get today for a Hine or an FSA photographer.

Boy, howdy....

In the event you were wondering, a Hine sold for about $200 in the 1970s while a news service photo of Babe Ruth went for a couple of bucks (if you could find one).

lumberjack

[GregMitch34]

Problem with this is the FSA photos are all available as new prints from Library of Congress for almost nothing because in public domain--were done for the gov't. Obviously not "Type I." But easy to get cheap.

[lumberjack]

Yes, you can get FSA or Hine photos today from a number of sources, just as you can get pristine Deadball photos today from, say, the Chicago History Museum.

This is great if you want a photo just for the sake of having a terrific photo. I understand that. The Chicago History photos are astounding; I have a few of them.

But, it is nearly impossible to find Hine or FSA vintage prints today (Evans Archives has had a few in recent past). Ruth, Gehrig, Cobb, Joe Jackson, Matty...those images are available as Type I photos and the prices are thru the roof.

I have a question for you? How many people are spending big money for Type I HOFers. What sort of bubble is at work. I'd really like to know.

[T206Jim]

I am less intrigued by end prices than the market dynamics at work. Supply is the critical and limiting factor as many unique images are off the market for years, if not decades. I agree with Rhys that one of main forthcoming sources of images will be major collectors who at some point decide to liquidate their holdings. The churn factor is strong and even more recognizable than with cards as most prints have easily recognizable traits that make them easy to trace through the AHs.

I also agree that the sports photos market is unlike any other photography market, and much of that is the result of the gravitational pull of the sports card market. That pull is permanent and evident in the premium given to card images. A sign that the sports photo market is maturing will be when the premium for card images is not so pronounced.

Interesting conservation thread. If you are interested in the rise of baseball photography and discussions of many of the issues in this thread you may be interested in my book.

https://chapmandeadballcollection.com/

[boneheadandrube]

I love the older photo's!

collage1.jpg
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collage3.jpg

[jacksons]

Incredible! Love seeing these out of slabs, too.

Originally Posted by boneheadandrube

I love the older photo's!

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[GregMitch34]

As I noted when I started this thread, I had no Type Is until the past week. I posted the Willie Mays one I got, but my thoughts on this subject were really inspired by winning the Babe below. It struck me that 1) I'd never seen that image before so may be one of a kind 2) it's a great image with catcher also in action 3) the price was under $1000. I started thinking about, say, the popular Kashin card for Ruth, with a staged, static pose, which costs at least twice as much as my photo, even in a low grade and for which PSA alone has graded over 200 (so you can imagine the numbers including SGC and raw).

Anyway, lot of good replies here on why photos only now catching on and limits to how much they may be valued in future vs. cards. Still, the appeal of (many) photos seems undeniable and growing. I should point out that surging prices for M101-2s Sportin News Supplements also fit the trend--although not Type I photos, they are very large sized, based on fantastic photos, and very few in number, especially if in good shape.


https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1715263546

[boneheadandrube]

Originally Posted by jacksons

Incredible! Love seeing these out of slabs, too.

Thanks! Thats about 8 years worth of selective collecting...but there's more!

[JimC]

Originally Posted by boneheadandrube

I love the older photo's!

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Greg that Harry Niles photo is awesome.

[boneheadandrube]

Thanks Jim, here it is with the T3


Harry Niles Conlon (T3).jpg

[Topnotchsy]

Originally Posted by T206Jim

I am less intrigued by end prices than the market dynamics at work. Supply is the critical and limiting factor as many unique images are off the market for years, if not decades. I agree with Rhys that one of main forthcoming sources of images will be major collectors who at some point decide to liquidate their holdings. The churn factor is strong and even more recognizable than with cards as most prints have easily recognizable traits that make them easy to trace through the AHs.

I also agree that the sports photos market is unlike any other photography market, and much of that is the result of the gravitational pull of the sports card market. That pull is permanent and evident in the premium given to card images. A sign that the sports photo market is maturing will be when the premium for card images is not so pronounced.

Interesting conservation thread. If you are interested in the rise of baseball photography and discussions of many of the issues in this thread you may be interested in my book.

https://chapmandeadballcollection.com/

I've been very interested in the way that other photos have started creeping into sports auctions. Some recent photos of Robert Oppenheimer, WWII photos, the Kennedy's etc. Mostly at RMY, but at other auction houses as well. In the later RMY auction there was a photo of an old synagogue, which drew my attention. I was occupied when the auction ended and couldn't compete more aggressively, but have found this really interesting and wonder whether the growing popularity of sports photos is bringing collectors to other areas of photography.

I know for myself, that I find memorabilia, photos and other similar items far more interesting than almost any cards at this point, and love the fact I can get much rarer items at a cheaper price (fully recognizing that they are distinct markets and that I should not expect these markets to ever 'catch up' to the sports market.)