Happy Festivus! Airing of Grievances 2023 Edition

[oldjudge]

Peter--I think the reason is that making the first move conveys information to the other party. If one is willing to sell an item for $X but the potential buyer indicates he is willing to pay $X+ then the seller has been advantaged by not making the first move. The same is obviously true if the seller shows an offer before the buyer has bid.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Peter--I think the reason is that making the first move conveys information to the other party. If one is willing to sell an item for $X but the potential buyer indicates he is willing to pay $X+ then the seller has been advantaged by not making the first move. The same is obviously true if the seller shows an offer before the buyer has bid.

Well I am assuming Eric or whoever it is, is savvy enough to start with a low offer. If someone has a card I want, I can't imagine passing up a chance just because I'm asked to make the first move.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Peter--I think the reason is that making the first move conveys information to the other party. If one is willing to sell an item for $X but the potential buyer indicates he is willing to pay $X+ then the seller has been advantaged by not making the first move. The same is obviously true if the seller shows an offer before the buyer has bid.

True, but if no one makes the first move, nothing gets sold.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

True, but if no one makes the first move, nothing gets sold.

Nor does the earth get repopulated with humans.

Brian

[jingram058]

Graded cards for someone who is a collector is stupid. How do you display a bunch of slabs in a way that doesn't look like a bank vault rather than a collection?

If your thing is graded cards, then you aren't someone who collects cards in a hobby. If you collect graded cards, just come out, get it over with, and say it... you're are investor. You know nothing about the ballplayers, the era in which they played, or any of that. You care about what your cards are monetarily worth. You get all excited if you discover, God forbid, a wrinkle or a crease or an ink drop, or...cardiac arrest here... it's trimmed!

I couldn't care any less about that, because, for me, it's a hobby. I don't even care if my cards are counterfeit fakes, because if they are, someone went to an awful lot of trouble, more than the actual manufacturer ever did.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by jingram058

Graded cards for someone who is a collector is stupid. How do you display a bunch of slabs in a way that doesn't look like a bank vault rather than a collection?

If your thing is graded cards, then you aren't someone who collects cards in a hobby. If you collect graded cards, just come out, get it over with, and say it... you're are investor. You know nothing about the ballplayers, the era in which they played, or any of that. You care about what your cards are monetarily worth. You get all excited if you discover, God forbid, a wrinkle or a crease or an ink drop, or...cardiac arrest here... it's trimmed!
.

Absolutely not true in every case, because I can attest to being the exception. I love my collection graded, I can’t tell you what any card sells for nor do I care, and I grade Authentics, 1’s, 2’s, etc. I’ll slab a card that I paid $5 for. Don’t care.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by jingram058

Graded cards for someone who is a collector is stupid. How do you display a bunch of slabs in a way that doesn't look like a bank vault rather than a collection?

If your thing is graded cards, then you aren't someone who collects cards in a hobby. If you collect graded cards, just come out, get it over with, and say it... you're are investor. You know nothing about the ballplayers, the era in which they played, or any of that. You care about what your cards are monetarily worth. You get all excited if you discover, God forbid, a wrinkle or a crease or an ink drop, or...cardiac arrest here... it's trimmed!

I couldn't care any less about that, because, for me, it's a hobby. I don't even care if my cards are counterfeit fakes, because if they are, someone went to an awful lot of trouble, more than the actual manufacturer ever did.

That's a rather unkind view of other collectors. People can collect whatever and however they want, whether it is raw, slabbed, modern, vintage...whatever. Just because I don't like it doesn't make them less valid as collectors. As long as they treat fellow collectors with respect and have fun with it, it's all good.

A card



I guess I must be into stupid stuff since I've owned two graded copies of this card. Couldn't just be that I enjoyed it so much that when I sold the first one I immediately started looking for its replacement...

ETA: nothing is wrong with being an investor either. Just don't be a douche.

[G1911]

I don’t see how any of the 3 groups - investors, collectors, or investor-collectors - are better than any of the other groups. The investors throw tantrums and attack if a collector doesn’t put the fiscal interest of investors over their own collecting, the collectors are bitter and angry at the investors and do much the same thing. It also seems to me that selling and buying cards is a painless and easy experience 99.9% of the time on either end, but that is evidently a minority view. And thus we have 67 posts in the holiday bitchfest thread and 6 in the Merry Christmas thread .

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by G1911

we have 67 posts in the holiday bitchfest thread and 6 in the Merry Christmas thread .

Complaining is my jam. As holidays go, I am more of a:

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by jingram058

Graded cards for someone who is a collector is stupid.

Narrow take.

Just because I consider myself more a "collector" than an investor, does that mean I'm supposed to just totally throw caution to the wind with my resources and disregard what anything in my collection might be worth?

I have brokerage accounts and savings that are the bulk of my "investments", on which I hope to be able to retire one day. I'm not one of those counting on cardboard or PSA slabs to do that for me in 20+ years. But even if the cards are largely a fun thing for me as a hobby, clearly they still cost money to obtain. If I decide to get rid of something one day or shift direction as a collector, the monetary value of some of my collection might be something of interest to me, even if only for the purposes of acquiring new cards - maybe ya think? To be ignorant of such things as a collector might be the opposite of being a hardcore investor, but I would argue being totally ignorant of value at some point - especially if you are going to possess valuable cards - just makes you a dumb collector. Given all the scandals of late like slabgate, altered cards in numbered slabs and the like coming out of Covid - there is a certain price point by now that I will not buy a card above if it's raw, if I cannot physically inspect it in-person first. That's just common sense.

Maybe you don't care about authenticity, sorry; but I do; that's the entire freaking point. I recently was able to acquire an (admittedly low grade, but authentic) 1963 Topps Pete Rose RC. Why in a million years at this point would I ever buy a card like that raw online? That would make zero sense - again assuming I give a flip about authenticity. First, even in low grade - it's what I consider a fairly valuable (north of $500 anyway...) card. Second, this is one of the most notoriously faked / counterfeited cards of all time. Why take the chance, why waste my time? Yes even with crappy raw scans, I can generally tell if something is genuine or not online, I've been around the block enough times to know what to look for. But even if ebay would stand behind me, or some other entity - why would I risk going through the hassle of being out real money and having to wait on a refund or judgement when I could just buy a slab?

Sure, PSA and SGC and others have made mistakes, have made BIG mistakes, and undoubtedly will continue to do so. But once the dust settles from all of that is the more or less undisputed fact that they also get more than 95% of it RIGHT.

If you don't like slabs, or like I used to in the past - don't like the look, but can appreciate the limited value that the service provides even if you bust them later - who freaking cares? I wouldn't disparage you for hating slabs, or buying only raw. The more money you spend on raw cards, the more risk you take on. But risk tolerance is a hugely personal thing - whether you are a collector, an investor - or some combination of both - which yes sorry, is entirely possible and happens.

Maybe don't worry so much about how those different from you "hobby"...

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Don't drink and post!

[jingram058]

Well, I am totally not surprised by the responses. I would expect the regular posters to respond the way they have. net54, while I love it dearly, is what I would call "the palace of graded cards". That's how I see it. We had a saying in the Navy, "perception is reality".

There are only 2 reasons, and 2 reasons alone, for having your cards graded: you are concerned about condition, which equates to monetary value, and/or you are concerned about authenticity.

I like having my cards, and I like handling them from time to time. Likewise, the memorabilia that accompanies them. They are a direct link to both the era they come from, and to my very happy childhood.

I don't care about card grading. I am not worried in the slightest about my cards value, condition, or authenticity. They are fine for me. I doubt seriously if they are fake, but if they are, they were so well done that I can't tell. My wife and daughter will be fine if I pass away. For personal, selfish reasons, I hope and pray I go first. They will be financially fine, from my converted Veterans Group Life Insurance to real estate to health care. Not from baseball cards. They know their potential worth, but beyond that, very little interest. They both love modern day baseball, but aside from Ty Cobb and Babe Ruth, the rest of baseball history beyond the 1970s is lost on them. So you guys can get my cards and other stuff from them if I up and croak. Feel free to have them graded.