1921 Herpolsheimers graded w/o mark

[molenick]

Originally Posted by Brian Van Horn

Here's the math:

1930s-1940s minus "1921" equals upper teens to low twenties in years difference from when the design first existed and the argument for the card's year.

In other words, fake set

You are adding the words "first existed" when no one is claiming that. We are just saying that it existed, which means it was not a 1970's disco pattern.

We all agree that the 1921 Holsum Bread cards are real and from 1921 (don't we?). And yet that border pattern is in the book as well.

[Brian Van Horn]

Originally Posted by molenick

You are adding the words "first existed" when no one is claiming that. We are just saying that it existed, which means it was not a 1970's disco pattern.

We all agree that the 1921 Holsum Bread cards are real and from 1921 (don't we?). And yet that border pattern is in the book as well.

Please click the link and read the paragraph in the white below the book page:

https://archive.org/details/LanstonM...e/n23/mode/2up

A typographical specimen booklet containing borders and ornaments for casting on the Lanston Monotype Composition Caster, Lanston Monotype Type-Caster, Lanston Monotype Giant Caster and Monotype-Thompson Type-Caster. This booklet is from a Lanston Monotype specimen book (binder) bearing the general title "Monotype Type Faces." It is undated, but based on internal evidence elsewhere in the binder it is from the late 1930s or early 1940s.


The last time I checked late 1930s or early 1940s eliminates 1921 in origin.

[molenick]

Originally Posted by Brian Van Horn

Please click the link and read the paragraph in the white below the book page:

https://archive.org/details/LanstonM...e/n23/mode/2up

A typographical specimen booklet containing borders and ornaments for casting on the Lanston Monotype Composition Caster, Lanston Monotype Type-Caster, Lanston Monotype Giant Caster and Monotype-Thompson Type-Caster. This booklet is from a Lanston Monotype specimen book (binder) bearing the general title "Monotype Type Faces." It is undated, but based on internal evidence elsewhere in the binder it is from the late 1930s or early 1940s.


The last time I checked late 1930s or early 1940s eliminates 1921 in origin.

The binder was from the late 1930's or early 1940's. That does not mean that every pattern in the book was new to that binder. In fact, some patterns, such as the 1921 Holsum Bread pattern, were around since at least 1921.

Are you also saying 1921 Holsum Bread cards are fake? Because that pattern is in the book, which using your logic means it eliminates 1921 in origin.

[Brian Van Horn]

Originally Posted by molenick

The binder was from the late 1930's or early 1940's. That does not mean that every pattern in the book was new to that binder. In fact, some patterns, such as the 1921 Holsum Bread pattern, were around since at least 1921.

Are you also saying 1921 Holsum Bread cards are fake? Because that pattern is in the book, which using your logic means it eliminates 1921 origin.

I have been waiting for this response from you. You have the Holsum which has been known for years. That eliminates it from your argument.

Now, as for the Herpolsheimer "back" similarity on the website link:

https://archive.org/details/LanstonM...e/n23/mode/2up

A typographical specimen booklet containing borders and ornaments for casting on the Lanston Monotype Composition Caster, Lanston Monotype Type-Caster, Lanston Monotype Giant Caster and Monotype-Thompson Type-Caster. This booklet is from a Lanston Monotype specimen book (binder) bearing the general title "Monotype Type Faces." It is undated, but based on internal evidence elsewhere in the binder it is from the late 1930s or early 1940s.

So:

1.) An honest dealer waiving his hand over the case in May 1999 indicating the cards are fake.

2.) The pattern on the back that looked and still does like a disco floor or coffee table (also from the 1970s) pattern.

3.) Reference to above:

It is undated, but based on internal evidence elsewhere in the binder it is from the late 1930s or early 1940s.

4.) First fakes of pre-WWII ever. No.

5.) Possibility of a person who works as a printer who has knowledge of cards including a love of Pre-WWII back in the 1970s. What a concept. A printer who collects cards and the thought of producing a group of the cards with a pattern which he may have seen on a disco floor which inspired him. The guy would have access to paper from the 1920's. Still, paper from the 1920's and pattern from the late 1930's or 1940's. Oh, we have the basis of a movie here. Alan Alda, however, is too old and Mr. Mint can no longer sue him. Oh, but I digress. My accurate memory despite a cold and Stage 2 Astrocytoma (Brain Cancer) doesn't get in the way.

[horzverti]

Originally Posted by Brian Van Horn

Oh, we have the basis of a movie here. Alan Alda, however, is too old and Mr. Mint can no longer sue him. Oh, but I digress. My accurate memory despite a cold and Stage 2 Astrocytoma (Brain Cancer) doesn't get in the way.

I meant to quote this above ↑↑

"Brian,
You seem to have been a bit tongue-in-cheek with some of your posts, so I also hope that you are only kidding about brain cancer. I don't know you outside of this board, so I can't really gauge if this is your sense of humor or not. If you are serious, then I sincerely also wish you the best with beating it and recovery." -me, two mins ago

[Brian Van Horn]

Originally Posted by horzverti

I meant to quote this above ↑↑

"Brian,
You seem to have been a bit tongue-in-cheek with some of your posts, so I also hope that you are only kidding about brain cancer. I don't know you outside of this board, so I can't really gauge if this is your sense of humor or not. If you are serious, then I sincerely also wish you the best with beating it and recovery." -me, two mins ago

Thank you, Curt. No change since the surgeon got 91-95% of the tumor in the left side of my brain during surgery at UPMC Presbyterian on December 1, 2020. Went through six months of radiation every weekday and a chemo capsule in my apartment each evening. Originally on November 3, 2020 in the emergency room at St Clair Hospital I asked the doctor the prognosis and at 11:43 (this is my time memory which drives my sister-in=law up a wall) I was told 5-7 median. I turned my head to the right to my brother and told him immediately I was going to be around 30 years.

I approach this battle like a barroom brawl. Everything is legal and if I have this SOB down, I am not allowing time for it to get back up. The tests over the past three have backed my statement to my brother.

The only thing in the six months that annoyed me is that I was restricted from driving which is completely understandable. It, however, nearly interrupted a tradition I have held since 2004. My father died January 8, 2002. He was cremated. We interred him after his birthday in 2003.

Every May 11 from 2004-2020 I traveled from Pittsburgh to Fremont/Ballville, Ohio to pay respects. Because of the cautionary period I was at risk of missing it, but a friend volunteered and drove to and from. I will always be appreciative. Next year would have been my dad's 99th birthday and 2025 of course is a date I am missing at no cost, so to the Stage 2 Astrocytoma the barroom brawl is on.

[Exhibitman]

Would someone please just threaten to sue Archive and bring this full circle?

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Would someone please just threaten to sue Archive and bring this full circle?

Originally Posted by Eric72

I wonder how long this thread will go before someone threatens to sue themself.


(it has happened before)

I was thinking that very same thought the other day...

[Tom S.]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Would someone please just threaten to sue Archive and bring this full circle?

We won't entertain that notion. However, whilst everyone has been debating the veracity of the 1921 Herpolshimers, we have acquired several cards off our World's Toughest Want List.