Any issue with bring up comps when buying or selling a card?

[Johnny630]

Education is such a valuable tool, VCP at a card show in the palm of your had is very powerful. Saved many a ignorant overpaying buy. Not all but some dealers disparage this because not only do they have to fight the customer they have to fight the dealer who is acting as a customer/walking the floor not set up. The old I gotta have some room, well do you? Many are looking to score not collect. In 2023 where are the collectors? They're buying raw collector grade no need for stupid comps!!!!!! Look at the Damn Card not the Pocket Computer Screen!!!

[bbcard1]

I think comps are useful in negotiating, but it all depends on who you are dealing with. There are also cards that look better (and worse) than comps, which should factor into pricing but doesn't always.

[notfast]

A goudey Ruth is a readily available card that sells often enough. Comps definitely matter for a card like that.

Obviously, comparable sales are a guide and not gospel…which is what buyers (and sellers) fail to understand.

[wazoo]

Originally Posted by notfast

A goudey Ruth is a readily available card that sells often enough. Comps definitely matter for a card like that.

Obviously, comparable sales are a guide and not gospel…which is what buyers (and sellers) fail to understand.

Well said

[Rhotchkiss]

I think comps are important and I base most of my buying and selling decisions on them. That said, they need to be real comps- temporally relevant (last 1-2 years), an auction sale, and the physical attribute of card that sold needs to be compared to the card at issue. Some dealers don’t like to acknowledge comps, or listen to them. That may keep us from agreeing in price/doing a deal. So be it. Plenty of people to buy from. But that is why I like auctions - the items are necessarily for sale and the market determines the value/comp.

[Lorewalker]

All forms of sales are based on comps. Not sure dealers resent comps as much as the way the concept is applied or misapplied. Taking into account scarcity of the item you are buying and the condition (not just the number on the slab) is what is usually missing from the equation. Timing and method of the sales (not just the last sale) are also an important concept that is often lost.

[Belfast1933]

Like many here, I'm a 95% buyer, 5% seller (to support the 95%)... i always use and respect comps as long as they are similar to the card I am buying or selling.

In the end, cards will sell above or below comps or else prices would never change - but I think it's a reasonable directional (not hard/fast) rule.

I want to the National last year for the first time and comp discussion never seemed to insult anyone I was dealing with.

Have a great time - I'm jealous... wish I could go again.

[StraightRaceCards]

This is a good thread, and I have wondered this question

As a buyer mainly, my opinion is as long as you bring up comps respectfully and respect the dealers opinion as well, you should have no problems. If a dealer doesn’t want to work with you around comps, tell them to have a nice day and take your business elsewhere!

Or have the dealer educate you in why you should not regard comps for the specific card. There might be a good learning opportunity. Besides, people like to be heard…. Might even give you some sway on another card that the dealer has.

Like others have said, plenty of options at a show like the National

if the card is scarce, comps provide less of a foundation to stand on, but it is a good starting point.

[mrreality68]

VCP, Comp Look Ups, Call a Friend.

All tools to use but be aware the buyer or seller may politely decline the numbers you provide.

In addition eye appeal is a factor as many buy the card more then the grade
In addition Rarity is a key factor. If the item is rare, does not come up that often then VCP, Comp etc does not work since no track record to refer to.
If it is more common like the Goudey Ruth, the 52 Mantle etc that seem to sell all the time then Comps are easier and make more sense.

And to many what they paid is a factor. IF someone over paid they may not be willing to sell it at your "price" they may be willing to wait even extended time for the price they want/need

There is even the emotional collector out their. Many times you have to pay higher for a price if you truly want something that someone does not want to sell because they have an attachment to it

[JustinD]

I feel like comps and VCP are complete waste of time with negotiating and pulling them up to be a Karen will ultimately sour your negotiations and ruin your purchase as well as your next possible one in the future. It's a terrible idea.

On the opposite side of the coin they are undoubtedly important to look up for yourself to educate prior to a negotiation. You should step away or quietly look before deciding to offer.

Anything and everything known to man has a value that is truly what you or another is willing to pay, what happened another time is negatable. For myself, I will look at prices and decide a ceiling and start talking. If we can't meet, I am comfortable walking away. I may also thank someone in a failed discussion for the effort, and kindly leave my number with a mention that the offer stands unless I find another that meets my needs. Because I was reasonable and treated someone with respect, I have received many a phone call later and settled over the phone. Those people will remember how you didn't whine or beat them up.

Just like a date, if it's no, take the no and go home. Pushing it will just get you a bad rep. Maybe the next time around your good nature will get to home base.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by JustinD

I feel like comps and VCP are complete waste of time with negotiating and pulling them up to be a Karen will ultimately sour your negotiations and ruin your purchase as well as your next possible one in the future. It's a terrible idea.

On the opposite side of the coin they are undoubtedly important to look up for yourself to educate prior to a negotiation. You should step away or quietly look before deciding to offer.

Anything and everything known to man has a value that is truly what you or another is willing to pay, what happened another time is negatable. For myself, I will look at prices and decide a ceiling and start talking. If we can't meet, I am comfortable walking away. I may also thank someone in a failed discussion for the effort, and kindly leave my number with a mention that the offer stands unless I find another that meets my needs. Because I was reasonable and treated someone with respect, I have received many a phone call later and settled over the phone. Those people will remember how you didn't whine or beat them up.

Just like a date, if it's no, take the no and go home. Pushing it will just get you a bad rep. Maybe the next time around your good nature will get to home base.

When I was set up at the MPls show this past spring...and this was my first time ever set up at a show...customers would routinely stand at my table with their phone in front of them looking up comps. In fact this was the norm. It didn't really bother me as i was there to try to sell...not gouge. There was still a negotiation after being presented with this info.

This is the way it is now.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

When I was set up at the MPls show this past spring...and this was my first time ever set up at a show...customers would routinely stand at my table with their phone in front of them looking up comps. In fact this was the norm. It didn't really bother me as i was there to try to sell...not gouge. There was still a negotiation after being presented with this info.

This is the way it is now.

Oh, definitely.

I meant much like what Adam mentioned, do the homework first. I do it off to the side or quietly after a quick excuse me, to avoid seeming rude. I also think the people that jam phones with comps in peoples faces seem like a tool.

I don't pretend that the dealer has no clue what the card is worth, it's a very rare day in which something is underpriced vs over. That's not a coincidence.

I just expect the usual each time: Dealer sets original price at highest ever plus 10% as a beginning. I do my research, if there are comps I may set a mental price around the average range of purchase prices with the newest most weighted. If the comps are zero, that's out the window and it's set on how much I really want it. My error card purchases seem to always fall in this bucket, lol.

We chat and hopefully come to a happy spot for everyone, if not...no hard feelings. I don't discuss comps, I often just say a general statement of "based on what I have seen sold lately, I would be comfortable here. I hope that works with you." As said before, I seldom meet a clueless vintage dealer that has no idea of what they have. My experiences walking with my son and dealing with the modern dealers that just started during the pandemic and have discussions about what "Market Movers" has as hot cards...not so much.

[JollyElm]

Here are a couple of things pertinent to the topic from my 'Collectorisms' thread...

885. Phonaticism
Surging headlong into negotiation battles at card shows with your cell phone - and the vast amount of past-sales data and other effective ammunition it holds - leading the charge.

973. The Blind Leading the Deaf (derogative)
An assessment of dealers whose pricing is not only a refusal to see what cards actually sell for, but who also won’t listen no matter how much documented proof of recent sales prices is presented to them.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by JustinD

Oh, definitely.

it's a very rare day in which something is underpriced vs over. That's not a coincidence.

Mainly because anything underpriced was purchased by another dealer during set-up.

[jethrod3]

Originally Posted by JustinD

I feel like comps and VCP are complete waste of time with negotiating and pulling them up to be a Karen will ultimately sour your negotiations and ruin your purchase as well as your next possible one in the future. It's a terrible idea.

On the opposite side of the coin they are undoubtedly important to look up for yourself to educate prior to a negotiation. You should step away or quietly look before deciding to offer.

Anything and everything known to man has a value that is truly what you or another is willing to pay, what happened another time is negatable. For myself, I will look at prices and decide a ceiling and start talking. If we can't meet, I am comfortable walking away. I may also thank someone in a failed discussion for the effort, and kindly leave my number with a mention that the offer stands unless I find another that meets my needs. Because I was reasonable and treated someone with respect, I have received many a phone call later and settled over the phone. Those people will remember how you didn't whine or beat them up.

Agree with Justin D. I think it's not unreasonable to do some homework before going to the show to purchase a couple of big ticket items. It's not much work, really. And as others have mentioned, it's also all about wiggle room for the cards that are really in demand----asking for and getting more $$ is what causes the prices to go up, and many of us that own at least one 1933 Goudey Ruth that they bought 10+ years ago are probably happy that some transactions in the past few couple of years ended up being on the high side of the original negotiation.

The idea of leaving a dealer's table on a positive note is good advice for folks, especially newbies. I've gotten to know several dealers, some of whom I have never bought from for one reason or another (usually because they just don't have what I'm looking for at that particular time). But you may come back to that dealer next year, and the good rapport you created in the past may lead to a successful and mutually rewarding negotiation then.

I'm glad that my white whales these days are going to be confined to mid-grade cards that are in demand yet not scarce. That allows comparison-shopping. Not looking for a 1933 Goudey Ruth anymore. Would buy a Goudey Gehrig PSA 3 if I found one with great eye appeal at a fair price, but am mostly looking for cards like 1960 Fleer Ruth and Gehrigs in the PSA 6 range. And some 1955 Topps baseball star cards. These are fairly plentiful---they are popular, but not in as much demand as some of the other cards and in better conditions that would bankrupt me. So I'll do my homework and be ready to engage in the chase!!

[Exhibitman]

It's all about using a little common sense and courtesy in dealing in person. We've all forgotten a bit on that score over the last few years. I'm setting up at the big Labor Day Weekend show in Anaheim this September, and I try to listen more than I talk, treat everyone with respect, and be aware of what I am and am not willing to accept on any given card. You want a deal on 500 cards from my bargain boxes? We'll talk. You want a deal on an N28? Not so much.

[rjackson44]

I own 200 t206s probably over paid for everyone of them .I sleep well at night .

[youguysplayingcards?]

As a seller 10%/buyer 90% I welcome comps. However a couple things:

1) If the last comp was 4 years ago it means little.

2) Not all cards assigned the same grade are the same. Old slabs in many cases were graded easier and also eye appeal is very much a thing.

3) If the card has 20 recent comps don't pick the cheapest or the most expensive.

4) There are some cards I bring to the National that I don't care if I sell.

5) If you call me some form of bro or brah more than 3 times I am going to ignore you.

[EddieP]

Originally Posted by youguysplayingcards?

As a seller 10%/buyer 90% I welcome comps. However a couple things:

1) If the last comp was 4 years ago it means little.

2) Not all cards assigned the same grade are the same. Old slabs in many cases were graded easier and also eye appeal is very much a thing.

3) If the card has 20 recent comps don't pick the cheapest or the most expensive.

4) There are some cards I bring to the National that I don't care if I sell.

5) If you call me some form of bro or brah more than 3 times I am going to ignore you.

Well said Bro

[packs]

If I'm the buyer, I don't care what you paid for your card or what someone else did. My offer is what I'm willing to pay.

If I'm the seller, I don't care what someone else paid for a card. The price of my card is what I'm willing to sell it for.

[Exhibitman]

It's better to do your homework before you engage. Look up the card first, then start haggling. As a seller, if I see someone buried in his phone my concern is that he doesn't know whether the comps are truly comparable because it is so hit and miss, and that he won't really look at the card or listen to me. In other words, it can come off as rude.

For a card that transacts a lot, like a Goudey Ruth, it is relatively easy to get comps before you even get to the show. If a card is in the general range of the comps, I prefer to ask the seller what is the lowest price he will take for it, in cash. You may be pleasantly surprised. I don't generally bring up comps. Just doesn't sit right with me. A seller with a stupid high price won't be impressed anyway.

Rarity is a real problem. If you are seeing comps from 2 or more years ago but nothing recent, there is no real benefit to it, you just have to wing it. My usual response as a seller when that happens is to invite the buyer to go find it for that price and wish him good luck.

[puckpaul]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I think comps are important and I base most of my buying and selling decisions on them. That said, they need to be real comps- temporally relevant (last 1-2 years), an auction sale, and the physical attribute of card that sold needs to be compared to the card at issue. Some dealers don’t like to acknowledge comps, or listen to them. That may keep us from agreeing in price/doing a deal. So be it. Plenty of people to buy from. But that is why I like auctions - the items are necessarily for sale and the market determines the value/comp.

I agree completely with Ryan. If a comp is relevant, based on graded and observable condition, and reasonably close in time, how can that not help set the value? Yes, every card is different, but grading and data have leveled the playing field on value determination and it’s an important tool. Don’t get the anger if it’s used appropriately. The times i have most issue with it is with the increased scrutiny on condition for higher grades at the third party grading services, many older grades are not a relevant comp. So you still have to judge each card. Still, more (and even some) info on past sales still is helpful.

[trambo]

Agree w/Ryan as well regarding the use of VCP to estimate value of whatever I'm buying. Most stuff I tend to get don't have a bunch of recent sales so I do my best to triangulate value w/other, somewhat relevant cards.

I will say VCP is only what somebody paid for a card and sometimes those can be misleading. Case in point is a card I bought today. Last sale was 3 years ago at $60. I needed it for what I was doing and paid $175 so that doesn't make the card a $175 card all of a sudden. I just knew I couldn't find it otherwise and I wanted to finish the project. That may become a comparable going forward and honestly, it shouldn't be. I just happen to be the idiot that overpaid...haha!

That said, at the national, I'll use VCP to figure out a ballpark of value but won't throw that out as a comp. I figure the owner of the card has a price they want and if it fits with or without some negotiation, I'll buy it. In my experience, if I see a card that I feel is grossly overpriced, I won't talk to the seller/dealer about it because there's no way we'll ever agree on a number. I also won't bring up anything with why I think it's worth what its worth unless prompted. Seems to work for me but I'm sure others have their own way of buying.

Should be a fun and interesting show w/all the fluctuation in pricing. Looking forward to it!

[Vintagedeputy]

I'm kinda funny when it comes to comps. I tend to look at them more after I buy something than before. I try to buy stuff on whether or not I like it, and if I like it at the price being offered.

Example: About a year ago, I bought a 1967 Mantle card at auction. I looked at the photos, and knew the BIN price was $100. Its not Mantle's best or most attractive card, and its towards the end of his career. I didn't currently have a Mantle card in my collection, so I bought it. It sat in my collection for at least a year before I sent it to SGC for grading and it came back as a 4. Then and only then did I look to see what SGC 4's were selling for. Yeah, I made a little on the purchase, but I love the card just the same as when i bought it, not any more because its worth more money. No matter the grade, or even if I kept it raw, the price I paid was what I thought was fair for the card that I was looking at, without knowing what anyone else's thoughts or past purchases may indicate.

I understand how money influences this hobby. Doesn't mean I have to like it though.