First under appreciated player that pops into your head

[Snowman]

Hitters:
It's gotta be Frank Robinson for me as well. He was an all-time great. He should be just one tier below Hank Aaron and Willie Mays, but he's usually an afterthought that gets placed several tiers too low. He gets no love. And since every thread needs a card, here's a Frank Robinson that I just won on eBay a few days ago

Pitchers:
Satchel Paige. Yes, he gets praise, but I believe he was the greatest pitcher who ever lived. He deserves more flowers.

Also, I find it interesting that some have stated Warren Spahn, as I believe he is the most overrated pitcher who ever lived. His stats were hyper-inflated by his ballparks (yes, so was Koufax, but not nearly to the extent that Spahn was). If you were to take all pitchers in MLB history and make adjustments to their numbers for park factors, Warren Spahn ranks as the #1 most helped-by-park pitcher in MLB history. That is to say that he would lose more WAR due to park adjustments than any other pitcher in history (depending on which WAR calculation you use, as some already bake this in). That said, Warren Spahn was indeed still one of the all-time greats. He just wasn't quite as great as everyone thinks he was.

[G1911]

I thought you’d pick Ryu

[JimmyC]

Originally Posted by NiceDocter

Paul Blair

Definitely….

[JimmyC]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Seaver wasn't a terrible hitter. At the time I remember him seemingly to be quite good (relatively speaking of course). Seems like most years he hit more HRs than Bud Harrelson did.

12 career HRs. Not too shabby.

Seaver and Harrelson were roomies…..and Seaver from time to time would use Harrelson bats….

[5-Tool Player]

Vada Pinson

[Exhibitman]

King Carl



So overlooked this is his first mention in this thread.

He led the League in WHIP during six of the eight seasons from 1931-1938.

He led the League in K/BB during five of the seven seasons from 1932-1938.

He led the League in wins during three of the five seasons from 1933-1937 and he won over 20 games during all five of those consecutive seasons.

He led the League in ERA during three of the four seasons from 1933-1936.

In a combined three World Series, Hubbell posted a 1.79 ERA.

He led the League in ERA+ during three of the four seasons from 1933-1936.

He led the League in H/9 three times during his career.

[metroac]

Stan Musial.

[therajah]

Al Simmons

[packs]

I'm going to throw Hal Newhouser out there. Typically a forgotten HOFer and a guy people sometimes list as a borderline player. However, he was pretty incredible for a brief amount of time and accomplished a lot that would normally have your name on people's minds a lot more:

He won 20 games four years in a row, including 29 in 1944. He also won two straight MVPs, and finished second the following year, nearly winning three MVPs in a row as a pitcher, and that stretch also included a Triple Crown.

These are the only three pitchers in history to win two MVPs: Hal Newhouser, Walter Johnson and Carl Hubbell.

Pretty elite company. I understand his career was pretty much over by the time he turned 29, but what a peak.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by packs

I'm going to throw Hal Newhouser out there. Typically a forgotten HOFer and a guy people sometimes list as a borderline player. However, he was pretty incredible for a brief amount of time and accomplished a lot that would normally have your name on people's minds a lot more:

He won 20 games four years in a row, including 29 in 1944. He also won two straight MVPs, and finished second the following year, nearly winning three MVPs in a row as a pitcher, and that stretch also included a Triple Crown.

These are the only three pitchers in history to win two MVPs: Hal Newhouser, Walter Johnson and Carl Hubbell.

Pretty elite company. I understand his career was pretty much over by the time he turned 29, but what a peak.

He dominated while most of the league was off in the war. Once they came back for the 1947 season he led the league in losses instead of wins (though he actually had a good season). He only seems underrated when the context of his 1944-1946 is left out.

[packs]

He did what he did in the time that he played. I don't know when another pitcher will win two straight MVPs or what the circumstances will be, but Hal Newhouser will be the only other pitcher to do that.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Hitters:
It's gotta be Frank Robinson for me as well. He was an all-time great. He should be just one tier below Hank Aaron and Willie Mays, but he's usually an afterthought that gets placed several tiers too low. He gets no love. And since every thread needs a card, here's a Frank Robinson that I just won on eBay a few days ago

Pitchers:
Satchel Paige. Yes, he gets praise, but I believe he was the greatest pitcher who ever lived. He deserves more flowers.

Also, I find it interesting that some have stated Warren Spahn, as I believe he is the most overrated pitcher who ever lived. His stats were hyper-inflated by his ballparks (yes, so was Koufax, but not nearly to the extent that Spahn was). If you were to take all pitchers in MLB history and make adjustments to their numbers for park factors, Warren Spahn ranks as the #1 most helped-by-park pitcher in MLB history. That is to say that he would lose more WAR due to park adjustments than any other pitcher in history (depending on which WAR calculation you use, as some already bake this in). That said, Warren Spahn was indeed still one of the all-time greats. He just wasn't quite as great as everyone thinks he was.

+1 on every word. Totally agree.

One of my favorite cards is a 1962 Topps Frank Robinson.

I like Warren Spahn, but find him overrated as well.

If only we could have seen Satchel Paige in his prime...

I absolutely love my 1949 Bowman "Satchell" Paige. Got it years (decades now) ago for free, complete with pin hole. Another of my favorite cards.

[refz]

+1 Bill Madlock and Al Oliver. I will add Manny Trillo to under appreciated and seldom mentioned.

[Jobu]

I agree with the Stan Musial mentions. I will also add Paul Molitor to the list - 11th all time in hits in spite of some pretty significant injuries and never mentioned in conversations about the guys around him on the list.

[ejharrington]

Keith Hernandez.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by Jobu

I agree with the Stan Musial mentions. I will also add Paul Molitor to the list - 11th all time in hits in spite of some pretty significant injuries and never mentioned in conversations about the guys around him on the list.

I think Paul Molitor is a great mention. Robin Yount, too. I never see their names on this site. I have a feeling Ichiro will join them.

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by jingram058

+1 on every word. Totally agree.

One of my favorite cards is a 1962 Topps Frank Robinson.

I like Warren Spahn, but find him overrated as well.

If only we could have seen Satchel Paige in his prime...

I absolutely love my 1949 Bowman "Satchell" Paige. Got it years (decades now) ago for free, complete with pin hole. Another of my favorite cards.

I love both of those cards. The 62 Frank Robinson is indeed an awesome card. And the 49 Satch is very high on my want list. Just waiting for the right copy.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by ejharrington

Keith Hernandez.

Keith Hernandez? The guy hit 162 HR in 17 years as a 1st baseman. That's less than 10 per year. He only hit 100 RBIs once, and the year he won the MVP, it should've gone to Dave Winfield.

[Deertick]

Jimmie Foxx.

Fun story about Davy Concepcion. Larry Bowa used to call him Elmer. Because he said "every time I look at the boxscore it says E. Concepcion".

[glynparson]

Frank Robinson

[bn2cardz]

Larry Doby

[FrankWakefield]

I echo what 3 finger said, Ed Reulbach.


However, Spahn, as good as folks think he was, and knowing he's already in the Hall, I think he's still underrated. If you had to win one game, maybe you don't pick him. If you had to win a series or a season, maybe you pass on him. If you were picking knowing that you got his career, he was in rare air.

And I find myself seeing merit in Concepcion, Musial, Blair, F Robinson, and even K Hernandez. He was an amazing fielder, and he had his head in the game. I saw both Hernandez and Winfield in 1979, I'd pick Hernandez over Winfield, easily, that year.

Ed Reulbach was something else.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

I echo what 3 finger said, Ed Reulbach.


However, Spahn, as good as folks think he was, and knowing he's already in the Hall, I think he's still underrated. If you had to win one game, maybe you don't pick him. If you had to win a series or a season, maybe you pass on him. If you were picking knowing that you got his career, he was in rare air.

And I find myself seeing merit in Concepcion, Musial, Blair, F Robinson, and even K Hernandez. He was an amazing fielder, and he had his head in the game. I saw both Hernandez and Winfield in 1979, I'd pick Hernandez over Winfield, easily, that year.

Ed Reulbach was something else.

I would take Spahn all day and twice on Sunday.

[jiw98]

Second basemen in Detroit seem to get overlooked a lot. Charlie Gehringer is a HOFer but gets very little recognition. He was a solid player both offensively and defensively. Then there is Lou Whitaker. Lou was also a solid player with a 75.1 WAR. Second basemen in Detroit get no respect.

[ejharrington]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Keith Hernandez? The guy hit 162 HR in 17 years as a 1st baseman. That's less than 10 per year. He only hit 100 RBIs once, and the year he won the MVP, it should've gone to Dave Winfield.

He didn’t hit a lot of home runs. So what? He was the key player on two different WS Champions. Best defensive player ever at his position. Great clutch hitter. Like I said, unappreciated.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by jiw98

Second basemen in Detroit seem to get overlooked a lot. Charlie Gehringer is a HOFer but gets very little recognition. He was a solid player both offensively and defensively. Then there is Lou Whitaker. Lou was also a solid player with a 75.1 WAR. Second basemen in Detroit get no respect.

Yes, indeed, Charlie Gehringer, "the mechanical man". Wow. Now there's a guy who ought to come up in these discussions for sure. Definitely underappreciated.

[leaflover]

Dick groat

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by jingram058

Yes, indeed, Charlie Gehringer, "the mechanical man". Wow. Now there's a guy who ought to come up in these discussions for sure. Definitely underappreciated.

I mentioned him for the first time in post #47... and nobody else mentioned his name until Jeff and you just brought him up. I believe Charlie Gehringer is a very under-valued and under-appreciated player of that great era.

[Ben Yourg]

Dummy Hoy
Even with his handicaps, and 19th century medical help,
he was a fantastic player!

[icollectDCsports]

We've had similar discussions here in the past, and the two names that always come to my mind first are Frank Robinson and Warren Spahn. Glad to see them both already get multiple mentions in this thread. As HOFers, certainly not overlooked, but definitely underappreciated. And I have to agree that Stan Musial deserves more credit as well. As for more recent players, Tony Gwynn never got the degree of recognition he deserved, And although Albert Pujols was celebrated during his last season as he surged toward and past 700 HRs, his years with the Angels took a bit of the shine off of his mind blowingly excellent years in St. Louis. Go ahead, take a look at those numbers and tell me you didn't sort of forget how great those were.

[Republicaninmass]

Ed Yost, averaged less than 50 strikeouts a season, averaged over 120 walks

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Ed Yost, averaged less than 50 strikeouts a season, averaged over 120 walks

Just looked up his stats and have to agree with Yost. Guy got on base. Tommy Leach also possibly underrated.

[FrankWakefield]

Agreeing with a couple of those recent posts...

I agree about Gehringer. A great fielder and hitter. A ballplayer.

Dick Groat. He was a super, letter in everything, athlete at Duke. He was smart. He was a smooth fielder, I saw him in St. Louis. Even though I was just a kid, I could see how he handled the bat differently, he would watch infielders moving while he was hitting with a runner on base, he'd slap a baseball through a vacated position with eerie precision. He has to be among the underrated, because he's about forgotten. I can still envision his smile, and as I recall he'd have a batting helmet jammed over his ball cap... could that be right?

[67airborne]

Harry Heilmann

[JCM2009]

Dominic Dimaggio.

[sphere and ash]

Al Reach, Mike Donlin, Jimmy Archer

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by ejharrington

He didn’t hit a lot of home runs. So what? He was the key player on two different WS Champions. Best defensive player ever at his position. Great clutch hitter. Like I said, unappreciated.

Nobody gets signed as a first baseman because of their glove. They get signed because of their bat and get put on first base because they suck at fielding and can't run. Sure, some are better than others, and Hernandez did amass himself a nice trophy case full of golden gloves, but it's not like he had stiff competition in that department.

Maybe it's just me, but I prefer 1Bs that average more than 9 HRs and 63 RBIs per year.

[GeoPoto]

"Ed Yost, averaged less than 50 strikeouts a season, averaged over 120 walks"

"Just looked up his stats and have to agree with Yost. Guy got on base."

This is what I am talking about! Welcome to the band wagon.

https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1671790897

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Nobody gets signed as a first baseman because of their glove. They get signed because of their bat and get put on first base because they suck at fielding and can't run. Sure, some are better than others, and Hernandez did amass himself a nice trophy case full of golden gloves, but it's not like he had stiff competition in that department.

Maybe it's just me, but I prefer 1Bs that average more than 9 HRs and 63 RBIs per year.

Yes, Keith Hernandez was no slugger. But let's not get carried away with downplaying his power. When you say he had 9 Hrs and 63 RBIs per year, you are including several "years" when he had few at bats, including when he was 20 years old and had 41 plate appearances. As a data scientist, I am surprised you would do this.

A more accurate look at his hitting might be to look at his OPS+ (128), or advanced metrics like rOBA or ISO. Keith fared pretty well in all of those.

He was an unconventional 1st Baseman, but he was valuable and helped his team win in many ways other than raw power.

On a separate note, we do both agree that Frank Robinson is criminally underrated from a card value perspective.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by 67airborne

Harry Heilmann

Great pick. Heilmann definitely wasn't overlooked by his contemporaries, thankfully. I was incredibly fortunate to know several of his teammates and opponents; all spoke highly of his caliber of play and personal character.

Heck, even his autograph is overlooked and undervalued. There isn't very much signed material out there, and most of what survives isn't really aesthetically appealing. Lots of small cuts removed from album pages, or multi/team signed pages. It's really difficult to secure something nice on Heilmann; such items should be worth much more than they are. Similar HOFers from his era who died young in the same decade are common by comparison. The closest in comparison from standpoints of dying young in the 50's, rarity and finding a signed piece of any quality may be Arky Vaughan, but much more survived in the way of poor quality cuts. And of course, Heilmann was the better player of the two.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

Great pick. Heilmann definitely wasn't overlooked by his contemporaries, thankfully. I was incredibly fortunate to know several of his teammates and opponents; all spoke highly of his caliber of play and personal character.

Heck, even his autograph is overlooked and undervalued. There isn't very much signed material out there, and most of what survives isn't really aesthetically appealing. Lots of small cuts removed from album pages, or multi/team signed pages. It's really difficult to secure something nice on Heilmann; such items should be worth much more than they are. Similar HOFers from his era who died young in the same decade are common by comparison. The closest in comparison from standpoints of dying young in the 50's, rarity and finding a signed piece of any quality may be Arky Vaughan, but much more survived in the way of poor quality cuts. And of course, Heilmann was the better player of the two.

I would disagree with that. I would take an OPS+ 136 shortstop who was good defensively over an OPS+ 148 outfielder who was not good defensively.

I don't understand all of the Hall of Famers in this thread. The only Hall of Famers that I would say are underrated are Johnny Mize, Arky Vaughan and Eddie Plank. 3 guys who were overlooked by the writers and had to wait too long for election. I am seeing a lot of names of players whose baseball cards are undervalued, but definitely not their careers.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

I'm definitely just judging by the way their contemporaries whom I knew spoke (or didn't speak) of them. When I visited all these players many years ago, I would tend to listen more than talk, letting them discuss whatever and whoever they wished for as long as they wished. I never wanted to interrupt the conversational flow. Heilmann was a man the older players would bring up on their own, and his talent was universally recollected with a great deal of respect. Vaughan was from the next generation down, and I got to know even more players from this era, including a significant number of his teammates. His name was barely mentioned, so perhaps he was overlooked by his own colleagues as well.

I certainly agree with your other point that there are a great deal of HOFers mentioned in this thread. Musial, Frank Robinson and Spahn have been brought up a lot. These guys were considered among the elite by those who saw them play. I'm not sure why anyone considers them overlooked based on their caliber of play. I'd agree on your assessment that this pertains more to card values.

[ClementeFanOh]

Someone above mentioned Larry Bowa, making a remark about Dave Concepcion. Bowa was a tool- period. He and Bud Harrelson are the same turd wearing different uniforms. Trent King

[823dek]

I know Dave Concepcion but who did Trent King play for ?

[rats60]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

I'm definitely just judging by the way their contemporaries whom I knew spoke (or didn't speak) of them. When I visited all these players many years ago, I would tend to listen more than talk, letting them discuss whatever and whoever they wished for as long as they wished. I never wanted to interrupt the conversational flow. Heilmann was a man the older players would bring up on their own, and his talent was universally recollected with a great deal of respect. Vaughan was from the next generation down, and I got to know even more players from this era, including a significant number of his teammates. His name was barely mentioned, so perhaps he was overlooked by his own colleagues as well.

I certainly agree with your other point that there are a great deal of HOFers mentioned in this thread. Musial, Frank Robinson and Spahn have been brought up a lot. These guys were considered among the elite by those who saw them play. I'm not sure why anyone considers them overlooked based on their caliber of play. I'd agree on your assessment that this pertains more to card values.

Heilmann was elected to the Hall of Fame in 1952 along with Paul Waner. The class before him was Jimmie Foxx and Mel Ott. Of those elected by the BBWAA before him, only Herb Pennock stands out as a worse player, although there are some others that I would rate slightly behind him. I have him at #66 on my list of top 100 players of all time. Maybe it is just me, but I think he is appriciated among true baseball fans along with many other HOFers mentioned in this thread.

After the original class of 5, the next first ballot HOFers were Bob Feller and Jackie Robinson, followed by Ted Williams, Stan Musial, Sandy Koufax, Roberto Clemente, Warren Spahn, Mickey Mantle, Ernie Banks, Willie Mays, Al Kaline, Bob Gibson, Hank Aaron and Frank Robinson. It seems like that is a pretty elite group of players.

[z28jd]

Charlie Ferguson. The guy put up 31.7 WAR in four seasons before passing away just after his 25th birthday. He won 30 games with a 1.98 ERA in 1886, then hit .337 with an .886 OPS in 1887. His final two seasons.

I thought his story was a little more well known, but the prices on his Old Judge cards are shockingly low for his story, leading me to believe not enough people know about him.

[smrtn240]

Gil Hodges